Interview: Ask Linus Torvalds a Question 383
samzenpus writes: Linus Torvalds, the man behind the development of the Linux kernel, needs no introduction to Slashdot readers. Recently, we talked about his opinion on C++, and he talked about the future of Linux when he's gone. It's been a while since we sat down with Linus to ask him questions, so he's agreed to do it again and answer any you may have. Ask as many questions as you'd like, but please keep them to one per post.
Is there another software domain that tempts you? (Score:5, Interesting)
When you've handed over the rei(g)ns for Linux, will there be other worlds worth conquering?
[Please say AI... Please!]
Re:Is there another software domain that tempts yo (Score:5, Funny)
Laptops (Score:5, Interesting)
Why do you think its still near-impossible to buy a laptop with Linux preinstalled?
Re: (Score:2)
Really? Let's ignore the fact taht just about any modern laptop will support Linux with maybe needing to download some Video drivers (or with Optimus, changing a setting in BIOS to disable the dual Optimus setting)
http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspi... [dell.com]
https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]
Not as many Windows laptops, but plenty out there.
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Does it even matter that you can't easily buy a laptop with Linux pre-installed?
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Or when are you gonna make my laptop's WiFi card work?
As soon as two things happen... 1. the vendor releases enough information on the card to make it possible to write a driver for it... AND 2. Somebody who knows how, writes the driver and submits it so we can incorporate it.
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A broken gift is a useless gift.
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All I said is "A broken gift is a useless gift."
I'm not asking for anything, so I can't make any effort to help with anything.
And I'm not whining, I'm saying that the usual attitude for a lot of OSS projects usually goes something like this:
OSS: Here's a gift!
Users: Thank you, but it doesn't work on my computer.
OSS: Fuck you, the code is there, fix it yourself!
Users: We're not programmers and your gift is useless to us.
I understand that resources are limited and that there's a lot of hardware out there. How
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They don't all buy the same hardware. However, if you bought a consumer-grade laptop, its components are likely those that came in on the cargo ship this week that tested OK for a Windows machine. You can get laptops that will definitely run Linux, but they may cost more, because they can't use just any old components.
Re:Answer (Score:4, Interesting)
While usually I can do my work from the office, sometimes I have to work in the field too. It's much easier to have one computer doing that work than it is to have one at the office, one out in the field, and one at home. Unfortunately the newest batch of portable computers, the convertible tablets, don't work well with X-Windows. This means having to have a separate computer at the office to connect into in order to work out of if I want access to everything that is helpful.
I've played with OSX-based laptops, I find the GUI clunky when it comes to working with multiple terminal windows, as Apple has taken the approach of using Apple-Tab to switch between applications, rather than switch between windows. It's more awkward than it should be to switch between multiple terminal sessions quickly. It also doesn't help that Apple has removed important keys from the keyboard, like pgup/pgdn, home/end, back-tab as shift of tab, and the distinction between backspace and delete, so a lot of the keys and combinations that I use effectively aren't available to me on the Mac.
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I've played with OSX-based laptops, I find the GUI clunky when it comes to working with multiple terminal windows, as Apple has taken the approach of using Apple-Tab to switch between applications, rather than switch between windows. It's more awkward than it should be to switch between multiple terminal sessions quickly.
Use option-tab to switch between windows in an application on OS X.
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I have been running Debian Linux on Laptops, Desktops, and Severs for at least 10 years with great success!
So go back to running Windoze, and just ignore
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Productivity (Score:5, Interesting)
You've somehow managed to originate two insanely useful pieces of software: Linux, and Git.
Do you think there's anything in your work habits, your approach to choosing projects, etc., that have helped you achieve that level of productivity? Or is it just the traditional combination of talent, effort, and luck?
Re: Productivity (Score:2)
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Wait... you left out subsurface!
What I'd like to know is... what else is up your sleeve?
Asshole-ness required (Re:Productivity (Score:2, Interesting)
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I would also add:
Git is wonderful for text files but horrible for (large) binary files. Will git ever be patched or re-architectured to allow it to handle large binary files better instead of them clogging up the history?
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Git is actually the opposite of useful.
Citation needed.
Re:Productivity (Score:5, Informative)
Git is actually the opposite of useful.
Git is like any tool, it's useful under two conditions.. 1. It's the correct tool for the job at hand... AND 2. The person holding the tool has the necessary skill to use it correctly.
In my opinion, git is a useful tool for the designed function, however, it takes a bit more skill than most tools of it's kind to use effectively.
I think we know what that means if you don't find git useful.... You either are using the wrong tool, or you don't know what you are doing...
Abstraction (Score:2)
If it's hard for a new user of Git to come to know what he is doing, then perhaps some abstraction needs to be created around Git that's easier for the average new user to understand.
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What? And make it work like CVS?
I used to have issues with git, but the problem turned out to be that I didn't understand HOW the tool does what it does. It isn't the tool, it's the preconceived notions that folks bring to the table which don't match how the tool works.
You cannot fix this by wrapping git in some wrapper that makes it look like subversion or CVS...
Re: Abstraction (Score:2, Insightful)
It's the user's fault of course. OSS is such a joy with such happy helpful people.
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Well...In the commercial software world users are still at fault, it's just that they have paid fees for support so the vendor hires people to answer the same inane (I didn't care to read the user's guide) questions over and over and be nice about it.
I'll be happy to consult with you on your problems with git... My fee is $200/hour with a three hour minimum per question, paid in advance. I promise to be nice, even if you ask the same question 50 times in a row..
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A good abstraction leads a user towards understanding, no matter what his level; a good UI reflects the abstraction, leading the user to use it properly, again, no matter what his or her level.
Git may have good abstractions (I'll take your word for it), but it has no UI to reflect it and so is opaque to many. In my attempts to use git, I've grown tired of wading through shitty web pages all of which give examples of use, but no abstraction description and no description of how these abstractions are to be p
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Try this: http://www.gitguys.com/ [gitguys.com]
Also, you need to remember that GIT is designed to be self contained locally and you "push" and "pull" changes to/from public repos. My biggest problem when shifting from SVN to GIT was that all your changes are made LOCALLY to your local repository and not to the common shared repository. That means your commit is only on your local system in that directory tree and no place else. Now if you want to have a shared repository and work with others, you have to carefully th
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There are GUI's that take most of the work out of your hand. Most people only need to pull and push anyway. We have a group that uses it for documents and whatnot, they are non-IT folk.
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Git is useful and obtuse, which is the most satisfying kind of useful.
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Ideas and opinions are like assholes, everyone has them. He implemented two products from a sea of ideas, and did a better job of it than the other competing implementations, to the point where industry giants (Microsoft, Apple, Perforce, IBM/ClearCase, countless unix providers, etc.) are still trying to catch up.
I think that's why we're interested in his opinions rather than the giants on whose backs he stood on.
Adoption (Score:2)
Re:Adoption (Score:4, Insightful)
What are your thoughts on why it is that Linux doesn't have a higher adoption rate?
You might want to limit that question to some subset like just "desktops". afaik, Linux still has the highest install base of any operating system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Android Updates & Security (Score:2)
Why didn't Google package a reasonable update agent within Android, and is this having a deleterious effect upon other Linux markets?
Would it have been possible for Google to deploy an updatable kernel with proprietary vendor modules? If so, why did they not do this?
I am still able to use towelroot to take control of several brands of Android phones (as can any app I load - silently). Should pressure and pain be brought to bear, or should we let Google continue to bring Windows 95-era security to Linux?
Or,
Can Valve change the Linux gaming market? (Score:5, Interesting)
Do you think Valve is capable of making Linux a primary choice for gamers?
Do you think (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you think Lennart Poettering is a malicious egotistical asshole, or just a misguided fool who starts things but never finishes them?
The future of RT-Linux? (Score:5, Interesting)
What are your thoughts on this, and what do you think we need to do to get more support behind the RT patchset, especially considering Linux's increasing use in embedded systems where realtime functionality is undoubtedly useful.
[1] https://lwn.net/Articles/604695/
How long are you in the game? (Score:5, Interesting)
systemd (Score:3, Interesting)
systemd.....why?
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I'm sure Linus has systemd opinions but I doubt he can answer "Why" because he didn't write it. Linux the kernel doesn't care what you run as init. It can run /bin/sh as init (sort of).
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Maybe, but when you have something that prevents you from properly debugging said kernel, it may be a problem:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/s... [freedesktop.org]
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The full question is, "Linus, why haven't you spoken out against systemd now that it's obvious that it has some serious flaws that will likely never be fixed, that it's tearing apart the Linux community, and that it is destroying the trust that so many people have in Linux distributions?"
Linus has a lot of clout and influence within the greater Linux community. Yet when this community is facing its greatest existential threats ever, even worse than any threat that Microsoft or SCO may have posed, we've hear
Re:systemd (Score:5, Informative)
He has spoken out on systemd, and his words were approximately "I don't hate it, I think it's fine."
Re:systemd (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.zdnet.com/article/l... [zdnet.com]
http://www.itwire.com/business... [itwire.com]
covered here http://linux.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Not only is your interpretation of Linus's feelings absurd:
-- Linus Torvalds [itwire.com]
But your claims of systemd developers "butthurt" are also ridiculous:
-- From the link you posted.
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Linus does not put any weight in ideology. He is meritocratic. And focused on kernel only. The userspace does not bother him much. However what good is a kernel - no matter how perfect - if there is no userspace to make use of that kernel? Well, "no userspace" is an exaggeration obviously. What I want to say is that you should think also about areas where you are not involved directly. Moving from "do one thing and do it well" to "do many things in one complex subsystem" and pushing that into most major dis
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Linus, how will you handle it when systemd comes into eventual direct conflict with the Linux kernel?
Which one do you prefer? (Score:5, Interesting)
Systemd (Score:5, Funny)
Systemd: as bad as Hitler, or as bad as killing puppies?
State of GUI (Score:2, Interesting)
If you were to do Linux again ... (Score:5, Interesting)
If you were to build linux again, what would be the one most important thing you would do differently
Systemd (Score:4, Insightful)
Rigor and developments (Score:5, Interesting)
Functional languages? (Score:5, Interesting)
While historically you've been a C and Assembly guy (and the odd shell scripting and such), what do you think of functional languages such as Lisp, Closure, Haskell, etc? Do you see any advantages to them, or do you view them as frivolous and impractical?
If you decide to do so, thanks for taking the time to answer my question! You're a legend at what you do, and I think it's awesome that the significantly less interesting me can ask you a question like this.
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I'm surprised there are not more programming questions.
Q: Is sizeof() *really* a function?
Also, was defining tabs as 8 spaces just an attempt to drive adoption of widescreen monitor technology?
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This is close enough to the question I had in mind that I've decided to comment on this thread instead. My question would have been phrased as: Do you ever see yourself wanting to do kernel programming in something other than C and assembly?
Particularly I'm wondering if he has any interest in Rust or Go, since they are actually targeting themselves at lower levels. I doubt he'd want to put Haskell in the kernel; whereas he might have different opinions about it outside that domain. Of course hopefully h
init system (Score:5, Interesting)
There wasn't a decent unix-like kernel, you wrote one which ultimately became the most used.
There wasn't a decent version control software, you wrote one which ultimately became the most love.
Do you think we already have a decent init system, or do you have plan to write one that will ultimately settle the world on that hot topic?
Nvidia (Score:5, Insightful)
Did your "fuck you" opinion on Nvidia changed lately? (and why)
Hello, this is Linus Torvalds, and I pronounce Lin (Score:4, Funny)
cat torvalds-says-linux.au > /dev/audio no longer works correctly with the latest Linux kernel.
( http://www.paul.sladen.org/pro... [sladen.org] for whoever wanders )
Also we would not mind of a re-shot of the 1990 "beer" photos :)
Critical software to the use of Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
For many uses of Linux such as on the desktop, other software beyond the kernel and the base GNU tools are required. What other projects would you like to see given priority, and what would you like to see implemented or improved?
Admittedly I thought most about X-Windows when asking this question; but I don't doubt that other daemons or systems can be just as important to the user experience.
Thank you for your efforts all these years.
What new thing does Linux need? (Score:3)
What big new feature or driver do you want to see added to Linux next?
Size reduction (Score:2)
Would it be possible to see UMSDOSfs return? (Score:3)
During the early days of Linux, UMSDOSfs was a quite useful tool, being able to superimpose UNIX file names and ACLs on top of a vanilla FAT filesystem.
With devices that might need to restrict access, but still require FAT32 because of interoperability concerns, would a variant of UMSDOS that works on this filesystem ever be feasible? Take Android for instance. The only way to keep app "A" and app "B" separated when they are granted access to an external SD card is by using SELinux rules (which the default pretty much denies access.) Having the ability to enforce permissions while still preserving interoperability of SD cards would be very useful.
Linux successors? (Score:2)
Linus,
If you were pressed against a wall and absolutely forced to name an operating environment that has potential to succeed today's Linux systems in terms of adaptability, flexibility, and popularity -- what project(s) would you name? Alternatively, if you cannot think of anything that is presently deprecated, in development, or in production... would you be able to articulate a broad set of standards that may facilitate the creation of a viable competitor?
The question is as broad-based as it sounds, with
Games (Score:3)
"anykernel"-style portable drivers? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
L4.X2 implementor here -- I regard "anykernel" drivers as wack shit because they introduce a rigid API between driver and operating system. Furthermore driver portability is generally nowhere near as big an issue as the per-driver runtime environment, and it is in this area that tiny microkernels excel: aside from states related to the IPC mechanism (e.g. leaving an interrupt unacknowledged and therefore plugged), there are very few special modes of execution in microkernel userspace beyond those that softw
minix (Score:2)
Now that minix has seen some proper development and its latest versions have a useful amount of netbsd packages, where would you like to see it in a few years? Do you consider it an old friend or foe and what do you think its targets should be? And finally, if, in the long run, minix proves to be THE better option for everything, will you turn into an old grumpy fart or do you see yourself as somebody who could possibly even contribute code?
How not to ask Linus Torvalds a question (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't have a question for Linus Torvalds, but I do have a story about asking Linus Torvalds a question. Back when I first started using Linux in 1995, I couldn't get the 'top' utility to run after a kernel update. I was only a kid at the time, and for whatever reason I figured the best approach was to just email Linus Torvalds himself to ask how to fix it. Little did I realize that would have been like emailing Bill Gates for help because a driver didn't install correctly on Windows. Surprisingly, Linus wrote back and explained that I needed to update my version of procps (or whatever it was called at the time). Linus, if you are reading this comment, I'd like to say thanks again for the tech support. ;^)
What's the next moonshot? (Score:3)
In the 20th century, humanity took a transformational step forward when it "went interplanetary". This impacted billions of lives and changed everyone's perspective about our role in the universe.
A lot of bad stuff happened, too -- weaponization of nuclear energy; oppressive governments; new tools like computers being twisted to serve repressive governments rather than the common man; continual and destructive wars; accelerating destruction of the environment and natural resources; etc.
If there's one objective -- one imperative with a positive end-goal that will transform humanity, or at least the way we think about ourselves, in a good way -- that the current and next generation should focus on, what objective do you think that should be?
In short, what should be our next moonshot as a global society? I say global because I believe any objective worth achieving at this scale cannot be accomplished even by a small cadre of very powerful advanced industrial nations. We would need truly global support for any initiative on the scale I'm talking about.
Google+ and LKML (Score:3)
You post publicly on both Google+ [google.com] and the LKML [lkml.org]. Some of your posts get a lot of attention on G+ like naming the next version 3.20 or 4.0 [google.com], which is a different audience than the Linux Kernel mailing list.
What do you like and dislike about communicating on either platform, Google+ or the LKML? How do you feel about their respective audiences? Do you enjoy the tools you use to participate in public discussions on Google+ and the LKML?
Processor Architecture (Score:5, Interesting)
Several years ago, you were employed by Transmeta designing the Crusoe processor. I understand you are quite knowledgeable about cpu architecture. What are your thoughts on the Current Intel and AMD x86 CPUs particularly in comparison with ARM and IBM's Power8 CPUs? Where do you see the advantages of each one?
Is the kernel basically a finished project? (Score:5, Interesting)
Aside from adding drivers and refactoring algorithms when performance limits are discovered, is there anything left for the kernel?
Maybe it's a failure of tech journalism but we never hear about the next big thing in kernel land anymore.
Living in America (Score:3)
Since you have become a naturalized U.S. Citizen, you must like living in America. What do you miss about Finland? What are some thing the U.S. does better than Finland?
Portland (Score:3)
Hi Linus!
So I've read you live somewhere near Portland, and as shocking as it is to consider you amongst the flesh-and-blood mortals that I might encounter in this life, I believe I might just be able to keep from frothing and gibbering were it to happen. No promises. But in any case I'd be nice to know if there were any social or tech events in the area that you might attend. Also, breaking the rules about multiple questions, but possibly relevant to the above: what sort of beer do you drink?
- J. Random Linuxuser
what'd be next (Score:2)
What's your setup? (Score:4, Interesting)
Obviously, you use Linux every day. What distribution do you use? Do you have a preferred desktop environment or window manager? A preferred text editor?
The final vision... (Score:2)
Your Usenet post describing the first public version of the Linux kernel compared and contrasted it with GNU, which itself was designed to be very Unix-like. Did you have a "final vision" for Linux in your head in the early days? I mean that as, did you see Linux getting to be a suitable Unix replacement that was still very Unix-like and then stopping, or did you have some sort of vision of a radically different operating system built on top of your kernel?
The question many want to ask, but don't dare to: (Score:2)
What do you really think about systemd?
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What do you really think about systemd?
He has answered that many times. I want a slight variation.
Last year he gave several mentions about it to several key groups. He expressed that "I don't actually have any particularly strong opinions on systemd itself. I've had issues with some of the core developers that I think are much too cavalier about bugs and compatibility, and I think some of the design details are insane, but those are details, not big issues".
He's mentioned in several interviews that he has needed to deal with fallout from the
How do you keep on top of it all? (Score:4, Interesting)
alleged danger of Artiifical Intelligence (Score:2)
Newer computer language (Score:5, Interesting)
What do you think of the newer computer languages ?
Rust, Swift,Go,Haskell,D,etc
Keep up the good work, the world needs fewer meglomaniacs building evil empires.
P.S. What do think of the idea of a VM sandbox safe area to run a systems internet facing programs in ?
This would be to limit malware/virus/etc access.
Android (Score:2)
Singularity OS (Score:2)
Did you ever check out Microsoft Research's Singularity OS [microsoft.com], which implemented a new OS kernel from scratch in a dialect of C#. It has no traditional processes and relies on software/compiler enforced isolation instead of VMM/page tables. It has some other rather interesting ideas in it too, like contract based IPC channels. Relatedly, there was some work done a while ago to allow better integration between garbage collected heaps and the kernel swap system (bookmarking collectors), but the patches were neve
Monolithic kernel vs Microkernel (Score:2)
Alrighty... (Score:2)
Opinon on recent moves by NVIDIA (Score:2)
It seems like NVIDIA have decided to become more "open" as of late releasing various pieces of documentation and header files as well as NVIDIA guys participating in the Nouveau mailing list. They are also working on the best way to make the firmware for their cards available for the Nouveau developers to use and distribute.
Do you see this as a sign that NVIDIA have genuinely changed their attitude towards Open Source or do you think this is just the actions of a company desperate to get more companies to u
grand-central (queuing) (Score:2)
GPU kernels (Score:5, Interesting)
network-operating systems (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:3)
Do you see a point in a new systems language? (Score:3)
I've tried to get myself around to learning C++ since the early 90ies and really never made it just yet. I find your comments on C++ interesting and wouldn't be suprised if they had a grain of truth, if not more. To be honest, I've been second-guessing my C++ ambitions since I've read your comments on it.
Which brings me to my question:
I know you're a plain-ol C guy, but do you see a point in recent attempts to build a new Systems language, particularly the Go project from Google and the Rust project from Mozilla? Do you think this is just a fad or do these projects have potential? Are they adressing real problems and doing something useful or are they just a waste of time in your opinion?
And if you would differntiate, what do you think in particular about Go and what about Rust?
Can you picture yourself using a different language than C for programming a thing such as Linux or Git?
That's more than one question, but since they're related, I believe you can answer them in one reply.
All that aside:
Thank you very much for your and the Kernel teams great contribution to society. Very much appreciated. Your straight-forward approach to things at times serves as a concrete role model for me in my daily work as an IT person.
Re: (Score:2)
Mr. Torvalds has a bit of a cult of personality around him, even if he doesn't participate with it much or contribute to it.
Linux is for Apps. (Score:2)
Android apps run on Linux.
Kernels!
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You want Google spyware on the linux desktop?!
For one thing, Android and X11/Linux (the "Linux desktop") are mostly separate systems, though they both use Linux as a kernel. For another, Android can be built without Google spyware, as in Amazon's "Fire OS" distribution.
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i think this has already been answered too many times. he does consider himself an asshole. yet oddly enough, in every single interview i've ever watched, he comes across as a humble softly spoken person whom i'd easily trust with my life.
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Speaking as someone who's primary machine runs Mint KDE with a hosts file that has ~130,000 lines of crap hosts mapped to 0.0.0.0, I say hosts is the better solution. Lots of adblockers still make the requests for mal-content and drop it on receive... hosts prevents the requests from being made at the system level.
It's too bad I can only use a fraction of it on my Win 7 laptop where it's more necessary, because modern Windows really doesn't like having a hosts file more than 768k in size. Took me months t
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