Interview: Ask Bruce Perens What You Will 129
Bruce Perens is a computer programmer and one of the most important advocates for the open source community. He co-founded the Open Source Initiative with ESR and has worked towards reforms of national and international technology policies. He is an amateur radio enthusiast, and has pushed for open radio communication standards. He is also our interview guest today. As usual, ask as many questions as you'd like, but please, one per post.
Unbalanced (Score:5, Funny)
Can you please convince ESR to change his name to Eric CloseParens? It's been bugging me for like, decades.
Er...what's left in "open source" to talk about? (Score:5, Interesting)
Having lived through the entire lifecycle of "open source," it seems like its place in development communities and businesses is well-established, with a mix of different licensing and deployment models for whatever anyone wants to do.
So...is there really anything interesting left in "open source" to talk about? (Software patents, maybe, but even that's picked up some case law.)
Question (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Question (Score:4, Informative)
Given that Bruce restarted Technocrat.net in response to the Great Slashdot Beta Uprising, this question is certainly not offtopic.
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No, there isn't. I wish there was, but the problem is that all the stories that this community really cares about are here and not on technocrat.
The quality of stories here has been in steady decline for 10 years and the standard of the associated discussions is pretty abysmal. Occasionally there's something good but it's 80% filler and non-stories.
You can't have a decent discussion about anything because it's all anti-FOSS zealots, ignorant newbies and pro-MS "sensible" people these days. Gone are they d
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Soylent News [soylentnews.org] is probably a more realistic alternative to Slashdot than technocrat.net. One of the major problems with technocrat.net is that Bruce has already killed it a couple times in the past when he lost interest -- so why would people move there now?
Also, although Soylent News is using old Slashcode, it's still much more functional than the technocrat software.
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Better yet, people should be moving to:
https://pipedot.org/ [pipedot.org]
Modern features like UTF-8. Fast clean interface. Its what beta should have been. Keeps everything good, throws out the bad. Plus, better name than solyant. Less drama.
Better still? (Score:1)
* for sufficiently small values of better
systemd (Score:4, Funny)
systemd - why?
Whatever happened to codec2? (Score:2)
I saw you giving out flyers regarding codec2(a free audio codec intended for amateur radio purposes) at the Dayton Hamvention a few years ago. Are you still involved with the codec2 project? Does it still exist or did it die?
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Thanks! I've been a little bit out of the loop lately on radio stuff sadly.
How does it feel to fight a losing battle? (Score:1)
The garden is becoming closed, because the people with money want more money. Open source is nice until there's lots of money to be made, then it goes away.
Newton (Score:2, Interesting)
After the Newton School shooting you posted on Slashdot that you would be willing to give up your second amendment right to prevent something like that from happening again. What other rights would you be willing to give up?
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You think the 2nd amendment actually keeps you safe and free?
That's cute; you just keep believing that.
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You think the government actually keeps you safe and free?
That's cute; you just keep believing that.
Try Afganistan or Somalia (Score:1)
It's also disturbing to see such ignorance dismiss an actual informed view as "cute". It's a "jock" bashing "geek" sort of situation just because the "jock" wants to make fun of someone that actually spends time thinking.
Re:Newtown (Score:2, Insightful)
What makes him think that he has the right to decide that for me?
LK
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My owning a firearm does not affect you in any way whatsoever. I've never fired it at anyone and I never plan on it either. If you're that worried about the your' safety and that of others around you, there are far more deadlier things that can be outlawed (cars, alcohol, high-fructose corn syrup, etc).
I wish I never posed the original question, I'm getting modded into oblivion :-)
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> there are far more deadlier things that can be outlawed (cars, alcohol, high-fructose corn syrup, etc).
That is a great list. Mod parent up!
Another example:
A person can legally kill themselves by
a) smoking themselves to death, or
b) drinking themselves to death
but yet suicide is illegal. Only the time frame is the difference; yet the former are legal while the latter is not??
Addictive drugs such as Alcohol, Nicotine, and Sugar are legal yet a harmless plant (Cannabis) is still illegal.
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Here's the issue I have with your question. It's framed such that "giving up the 2nd amendment = gun ban" and that's fallacy.
The 'trouble' with the 2nd amendment is that it's too strong, too absolute. It results in absolute permission, and one is not required to display any competence with guns, have any knowledge about guns, nor even observe common sense safety practices to have a gun. That's ridiculous.
A "better" 2nd amendment would be one which treats guns much like we treat cars in practice. Anyone can
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Don't worry. After 6 PM, the people with jobs get home from work and start balancing things out.
LK
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Well that escalated quickly. I think that with the obvious discrimination against rural-dwellers in your post (and the assumption that I am one), people will decide for themselves who is "civilized".
Wait, why am I wasting my time on this? I usually don't respond to AC's. Have a good one.
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If you're so civilized, why are you having such problems with people shooting each other?
LK
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So all your gun-ho, "an armed society is a polite society" bullshit is proven incorrect.
Can you give us some proof that its incorrect? Also, define civilized for me.
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I don't have to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D... [wikipedia.org]
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I am already a member. [cornell.edu]
LK
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After the Newton School shooting you posted on Slashdot that you would be willing to give up your second amendment right to prevent something like that from happening again. What other rights would you be willing to give up?
Bruce Perens is on record [debian.org] as a notorious hoplophobe.
I lost a lot of the respect I had for him based on his public vitriol in the Newton post on Slashdot. I don't think it's respectable to pick and choose which human rights you support, and the individual right to keep and bear arms is fundamental to the universal right to self-defense.
At least ESR is consistent in supporting liberty in all its forms, in computing and in real life (much to Bruce's obvious chagrin, per the above link).
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The fundamental problem with the second amandment is that the only group I can actively imagine making use of it against the government is also the group I least want to see use it against the government.
Try reclaibrating your (Score:2)
Then perhaps you should read a little history and see who has actually used privately-owned guns against their own govrernments - and what has happened when privately owned weapons were banned and confiscated.
You should also consider that privately owned guns are "used" against governments by simply being there, rather than fired.
Example: Richar
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Social issues (Score:1)
Bruce,
Why do you act in such an abrasive and hostile manner when you discuss social issues about which you have opinions?
LK
What I Will. (Score:2)
I'm sorry, I keep misreading these interview headlines. I do not think Bruce Parens knows what I will do, what I want, or what the contents of my will are.
So Bruce, do you happen to know what I will do, what I want, or what my will says?
How do we address the weaknesses of Open Source? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm an Graphics + UI + UX expert and use open source when I can (I also contribute to a minor open source emulator.)
1. What can we as a community do to address the weaknesses of Open Source?
That is, I see time and time again in open source:
* Functionality not on par with certain commercial apps,
* Bad UI,
* Poor documentation such as man files that don't have any freaking examples,
* A million and one clones that duplicate basic functionality
2. How do you respond to trolls who call open source "open sores" ?
3. How do we overcome the perceived image that "you get what you pay for" That is, some people think that if it is free it isn't worth anything, or it is only "worth" something if I must pay $$$ for it ?
4. Finally, is there an up-to-date list that shows all the various open source "equivalents" of commercial software?
Cheers
--
Only Cowards Censor
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More to the point, how do you reply to the criticism and practice that Open Source is worthless because there is no company to back it? I run into this all the time. First, no one stop shop to get tech support from if we have trouble.
Second, No company to go after for liability
And Third, no company to maintain regular bugfixes and general currency and freshness.
We don't have a policy against Open Source, we just have a standard the vast majority of (perfectly adequate) software can never meet
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I'm an Graphics + UI + UX expert
I have always found self-professed "UX experts" to be people who completely ignore what large numbers of users want and change GUIs for the sake of being trendy. Tell me, what do you think of Firefox's drastic UI changes since Firefox 3?
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Why? That would just add noise.
Everyone knows Beta sucks.
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> self-professed "UX experts"
Self-Professed?? My smegging JOB TITLE says "Senior User Experience Developer"
I work for a Fortune 50 company. Yes, 50.
These days I do mostly WebGL and Javascript work.
My boss _starts_ with 60 FPS for UI. As someone who can tell the difference between 120 Hz, 60 Hz, and 30 Hz, I appreciate people who understand the technical and psychological issues in UI and name & shame those that don't have a clue about good UI design. Now if only the rest of the people in the comp
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> because of 3 things:
Programmer Irony: Fence-Post Bug. Should be 4 things. ;-)
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Yeah, your rather hostile attitude isn't doing much to change my opinion of people who generally like to call themselves "UX experts". I'm a programmer, but I wouldn't have the gall to call myself an "expert developer".
Anyway, my specific question about FF is, why do UX "experts" think that it's OK to run roughshod over those of us who prefer a fuller browser chrome (even if we are a minority) and want tabs-on-bottom? Why is it OK for UX people to just force their mockups down everyone's throat? Because
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I'm an expert because I have 20+ years of graphics programming & design. I not only know what TO DO, but also what NOT to do (which is JUST as important.)
There is one answer to all your questions:
Most UX people don't know what the fuck they are doing!!!
They failed the 0th lesson:
* Form MUST FOLLOW Function
Sadly they are delusional and want "bling" at the expense of function. They want all sex appeal and forget that the best UI is one that gets out of your way!
IMHO Good UI _must_ _first_ give th
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Focus on the message not the messenger otherwise you just look like you are focusing on pointless ad hominem attacks.
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> Neither is over-the-top hyperbole (Adobe Flash, really???)
If you fail to understand BOTH the strengths and weakness of an application then you aren't really qualified to comment.
> what I can tell you is that you seriously need to rethink your strategy to impress people
I couldn't give a fuck what people think. If you want to focus on the messenger instead of the message then grow the fuck up.
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I now like tabs on top, it makes the URL bar easier to reach (and the search bar for occasional lusers who use my browser)
It helps that Firefox comes with the "File edit view.." menu bar intact and title bar intact by default, on the OSes I use.
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> I'm a programmer, but I wouldn't have the gall to call myself an "expert developer".
At the risk of sounding offensive it sounds like you haven't programming very long. if you lack confidence in your own skills then try programming for another 20 years. Eventually you'll master it. I would recommend essential books such as:
* Godel Escher Bach
* The Mythical Man Month
* Code Complete
* Javascript: The Good Parts
* The Pragmatic Programmer
* The Design and Evolution of C++
* Modern C++ Design
For a more comple
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When I leave FF running for 30 days and it chews up 2 to 4 GB of RAM, close all the tabs down, restart the browswer, and it goes back to ~ 100 MB that is a memory leak but if you would spend less time on ad hominem attacks you would know that.
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You are blaming the wrong party.
I work in R&D.
Change for the sake of change is a *horrible* UI philosophy. See my other reply for more details:
http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org]
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And your arrogance covers your ignorance magically because you're in a different department?
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We don't ship Android apps.
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Amen to that. I've had to install the old Maps to get the old Navigate back again. Combining Navigate into the Maps interface was a HORRIBLE decision. If Google had a fucking clue about UI design they'd reverse the decision and separate them out again. It's 2 separate things god damnit!!
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I'm an Graphics + UI + UX expert and use open source when I can (I also contribute to a minor open source emulator.)
1. What can we as a community do to address the weaknesses of Open Source?
The fact that you're asking that question tells everyone you are not a ui expert
If you were, you'd know exactly what YOU could do to help.
Maybe ... consider fixing the shitty UI options?
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> The fact that you're asking that question
Only a fool pretends to know. The wise man isn't afraid to ask to find out why.
Or in the famous words of Neil Peart:
"What is a master but a master student?"
. /sarcams I guess you were born knowing ALL the answers. Sorry that I wasn't.
State of the Union address / 16 this year (Score:4, Interesting)
The OSI is 16 this year and in many ways has experienced a difficult childhood but has grown stronger as a result.
What challenges do you forsee out child for the future?
Automation Technology Displacing Tomorrows Worker (Score:3)
Obamacare (Score:3)
Should the software used for Obamacare be open source. I don't just mean the website, but also things like the software controlling pharmaceuticals, X-raya, MRI, maintaining health records etc. ?
My question is for Slashdot (Score:2, Insightful)
Did Bruce ACTUALLY agree to this, or is this another one of your retarded 'ask blah blah blah whatever you want' that just vanishes into nothing because the person in question never agreed to any such thing?
Do you feel that you can continue to act like morons and continue to have any visitors at all?
Being that timothy seems to have the highest IQ of the group, how does it feel to work with a group of 5 or 6 people that have a combined IQ of less than 100?
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You mean like :
http://interviews.slashdot.org... [slashdot.org]
or
http://features.slashdot.org/s... [slashdot.org]
?
But to be fair, http://slashdot.org/index2.pl?... [slashdot.org] is much more "Ask X what you will" than "X answers your questions".
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You can type that here without trouble, yet you cannot type an email to Bruce and ask him yourself?
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I have no interest in bothering someone who's got plenty of things to do in their lives already.
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*snort*
I'm listening :-) (Score:2)
Yes, I will answer the interview questions as soon as the editor gets them together.
If you have a specific question, you can always reach me via email to bruce at perens dot com or phone 510-4PERENS. Email usually works better.
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They aren't smart enough to answer the questions in the first place, they're rhetorical.
a bothersome thing (Score:1)
Have you and Lee patched up yet? (Score:3)
Have you patched things up with Lee yet or are you still having a falling-out? Fans are eagerly to see another collaboration, perhaps a new steak sauce or rub.
What about C4FM and D-STAR? (Score:1)
What can you say about your activities geared towards eliminating the use of D-STAR, C4FM, and other proprietary digital codecs in Amateur Radio? It seems the scourge of these proprietary technologies continues unabated. Have you done any work to develop any open digital standards for Amateur Radio? If so, where does that work currently stand?
Credit for the OSS movement (Score:3, Interesting)
Some years ago, around 2006, I attended a talk from Eric S. Raymond at a venue large enough to accommodate his massive ego and still leave room for attendees. He informed that he had essentially given HP their Open Source strategy. Your name was not mentioned once. I am curious what were your discussions like at HP during your time there, specifically in regards to the ideals of Free Software versus Open Source. My question specifically:
What legal and financial hurdles and impacts, if any, did HP (and other companies) face when deciding between Open Source and Free Software models? I.e., what proprietary assets/IP could not be completely "freed"? What were the savings/costs associated with the decisions?
Q1 for BP (Score:2)
Why has the ARRL and FCC stalled on non-closed models for hams? D-Star is a travesty; but is the deeper problem that digitized voice trunking induces tracking fears-- especially across spread spectrum?
Q2 for BP (Score:2)
With predictability now almost certainly in many encryption algorithms, how can we be sure that root certs at CAs aren't jeopardized or compromised by algorithmic weakness?
Q3 for BP (Score:3)
What are your five biggest fears for safety on the Internet today, and where do you believe responsible admins should put their efforts for those five?
Thanks.
Moderation (Score:3)
Open source HARDWARE (Score:3)
Gun Ownership (Score:2)
You are on record [archive.org] as being rather firmly against private ownership of firearms. Frankly, I thought this extremity of anti-gun zealotry was a Republican myth, a straw man used to rile the rabble. I understand that people in less civilized territories will on rare occasion use guns for murder and atrocity, I am not aware of this impulse being a general hazard of gun ownership.
I'm from Alaska. All the people that I know who have guns have only ever used them for hunting. I'm less sympathetic to those who can a
Cool It, Linus! (Score:2)
I ran across an article which is hilarious in hindsight, [theregister.co.uk] relating some of the drama about the use of the closed-source tool BitKeeper for managing the Linux kernel. [wikipedia.org] You told Linus to "cool it", and whether or not that worked, the result was the git source control management tool. This in turn has led to GitHub, and an increase in open-source projects, although it's hard to measure such things at the best of times. Do you feel like you were on the right side of that debate? Do you think git deserves the hype
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Bruce, since you seem to have considered it OK to violate the bitkeeper licence (correct me if I'm wrong) why do you consider it not OK to violate the GPL?
Since people are bound to go for an attack on me I'd better state my view that if you use software you should stick to whatever rules the people who wrote it want and if you don't like them use something else. I prefer the GPL, but consider the bitkeeper, qt, iceweasel and other licence debacles very stupid storms in teacups.
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Intervews (Score:2)
It's kind of funny: I don't think any of these interviews have any responses from their subjects. Ask away! Then forget.
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It's up to the editor when they run the replies. But I promise to answer mine.
Gay Marriage (Score:2)
Did you donate money for Prop 8 one way or the other? If so, when do you plan on announcing your resignation?
what now? (Score:2)
Amateur (Ham) Radio in the Internet Age (Score:1)