Ask Lt. Col. John Bircher About Cyber Warfare Concepts 236
The Air Force is not the only U.S. military branch trying to come to grips with the electronic side of warfare, both current and future. The U.S. Army Computer Network Operations (CNO)-Electronic Warfare (EW) Proponent (USACEWP), located at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas — home to the U.S. Army's Combined Arms Center — serves as the Army's hub for cyber-electronic concepts and capabilities. This is the organization responsible for developing doctrine, materiel and training to prepare the Army for cyber-electronic engagements. For example, USACEWP has developed training teams to ensure that U.S. commanders and soldiers around the world are fully informed of cyber-electronic capabilities at their disposal. Leading the Proponent's Futures branch is Lt. Col John "Chip" Bircher; Bircher entered the Army in 1989 as an Infantry officer, then served in various command and staff positions, most recently Information Operations (IO). He was the IO Chief for the 25th Infantry Division (Light), Hawaii, and Director of IO for Combined Joint Task Force -76, Bagram, Afghanistan. If you want to know more about the realities and challenges that face an armed, global IT department in a time when electronic warfare is ever more important and dangerous, now's your chance to ask Lt. Col. Bircher some questions. We'll pass on the highest-moderated questions for Lt. Col. Bircher to answer. Usual Slashdot interview rules apply.
John Bircher? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:John Bircher? (Score:5, Funny)
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"It was named after John Birch, a United States military intelligence officer"
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Technique? (Score:5, Interesting)
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I have more doubts. (Score:2, Informative)
Damn! (Score:3, Funny)
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Legal Ramifications (Score:5, Interesting)
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Why so many directly connected networks at all? (Score:5, Interesting)
Why aren't there more isolated networks that would require physical contact or interception to get to in the first place? Do sensitive systems really need any connection at all to the conventional internet in the first place?
I know that many places in the DoD do take this approach (people having one computer for safe email and browsing, and a completely different computer for sensitive intel), and certainly it's more expensive and less convenient. But when the internet is basically just a big pathway leading directly to your backdoor, why take any chance at all, ever?
Re:Why so many directly connected networks at all? (Score:4, Funny)
Good point - I guess if the Internet had been designed by the military (or, say, by a military research group) it certainly wouldn't have ended up this way...
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Maybe they have people who can go places and attach wireless / satellite access points to various networks. It's not a safe job, but the military has plenty of jobs that aren't safe.
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It is often the case that the sensitive systems aren't directly connected to the Internet. Instead, the sensitive system gets inadvertently connected to another (less-sensitive) system that is connected to the Internet. The second systems gets compromised, which gives the attacker a way to attack the first system.
For example, as I understand it, a nuclear plant was taken offline by attackers. The control system was not connected to the Internet. However, the management system (payroll, timecards, etc
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Long-distance communications over sat-link is cool, but expensive and limited in capacity.
Sometimes a simple e-mail has a better chance of getting to its intended destination.
What is that? (Score:5, Interesting)
Include examples.
Compare/contrast with traditional forms of intelligence gathering (wiretaps, listening devices, etc) and their counter-measures.
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As a side question... (Score:2)
Is this really the association they're going for?
Interview Question (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Interview Question (Score:5, Insightful)
You made a typo there. Here's a correction:
With the political tilt as it is, a large part of the software development community is likely inclined against helping politicians use the Army as a tool to fight wars which harm our country.
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a large part of the software development community is likely prejudiced against helping our country
Say what?
If you mean to say lots of us don't support invading foreign countries without causus belli, or we start complaining at the suspension of habeas corpus and being jailed indefinitely without charges, then you're confusing "helping our country" with supporting the government.
Defending Liberty and Supporting our President are not necessarily the same thing.
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Probably he'd rather recruit people who will obey orders to the best of their abilities as long as those orders are legal. I don't think the military is interested in people who want an option to leave if they don't agree with their orders.
There are people who don't make good soldiers. I'm one of them. That doesn't mean that out of a population of ~300 million he won't find the people he's looking for.
Hacker war... (Score:5, Interesting)
And if and if ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Example: the NSA has worked on SELinux.
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And if there actually is a "Hacker War" between us ... and if our military is currently playing a role in such ... are there any civilian applications that will be released to help defend our non-military assets (corporations, education, etc)?
If you skip down about 6 articles on the front page (YMMV), you'll see:
Data Breach Study Spanning 500 Break-Ins Released [slashdot.org]
How about (1) Nearly nine in 10 corporate data breaches could have been prevented had reasonable security measures been in place,
The IT community has had a hell of a time convincing computer users that security is important..
And you can't exactly force people to take reasonable security precautions to protect their systems.
Increasing Complexity & Risk Management? (Score:2, Interesting)
For us geeks who'd be sitting behind a computer .. (Score:5, Funny)
If so, would basic training be to train us to stay up all night, living on pizza, soda, Skittles, and porn?
If so, where do I sign up?!?
Re:For us geeks who'd be sitting behind a computer (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:For us geeks who'd be sitting behind a computer (Score:4, Funny)
Re:For us geeks who'd be sitting behind a computer (Score:2, Interesting)
to fight. Will we have to go to basic training?
If so, would basic training be to train us to stay up all night, living on pizza, soda, Skittles, and porn?
If so, where do I sign up?!?
Although the parent posted humorously it does lead into an interesting chain of thought:
Where can one look to educate "him/her"self on information warfare. When recruiting; do you look for a specific mindset, skillset or qualities in candidates for this line of work?
Are there sources of internet where one can start to learn about the subject?
Relationship with the Air Force? (Score:5, Interesting)
Since the Air Force is the U.S. military branch claiming dominance in "cyberspace" (along with air and space), how do you view the Army's relationship with the Air Force in "cyberspace"? Will the Army seek to take over all of the "cyberspace warfare", carve out its own niche in cyberspace, or peacefully coexist with the Air Force?
With respect to leadership in this area across the DoD, do you feel that the Air Force being denied the program executive role for all DoD UAV endeavors represents an opportunity for the Army increase its role with respect to UAVs (as many people see cyberspace and UAVs to be inextricably linked)?
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The US Strategic Command often, not always, has its commander come from either the Air Force or the Navy (with one exception, Marine General James Cartwright), as they have the preponderance of strategic nuclear weapons (AF with ICBMs and long-range strategic
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Will the Army seek to take over all of the "cyberspace warfare", carve out its own niche in cyberspace, or peacefully coexist with the Air Force?
Or peacefully coexist. Ha!
The Air Force is looking for ways to stay relevant in a world where they've essentially over-achieved to the point that nobody can really challenge them for air dominance.
IMO, the only thing that would make them coexist peacefully with the Army is if the Pentagon buries the tensions & rivalries under a pile of cash.
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Attacks... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Attacks... (Score:5, Funny)
Can you imagine what might have happened, if you had not so qualified your question? He might have let the cat out of the bag!
Personally, I would have phrased it this way: "Please tell us everything you're up to. (It's ok. We're cool.)"
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Personally, I would have phrased it this way: "Please tell us everything you're up to. (It's ok. We're cool.)"
China (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:China (Score:5, Interesting)
Recruitment (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Recruitment (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Go to the recruiter and say "I want to do XYZ". If you are lucky you will get a recruiter that isn't a slimeball and will actually help you do specifically what you want. Hit or miss here, some are really amazing folks that know how to work things, others are asshats that know how to sleaze kids in. Do your research first. Non military and recruiters are about the last people you want to talk to for "how it really is" information, one is clueless and comes up with nonsense stories, the other has a clue and comes up with nonsense stories. Currently active or recently retired people will have the best information, though it will frequently be a bit dated. It is best to refine your questions with them and then ask specific pointed questions of the recruiters.
2. Go to the MEPS (Military Entrance Processing Station I believe) and do the tests. ASVAB being the big one here, all branches use these scores in one way or another to determine what jobs you are qualified to do. This isn't exactly a hard test by any stretch, more than anything it gives the military a guess as to how complex of a school they can send you to without wasting money on you failing out. You will also go through the whole physical thing, eye tests, piss tests, blah blah blah.
3. Go to the career manager folks. Each branch has a different name for them and this part will typically happen at the MEPS. Again, much like recruiters they are hit or miss. However, they have a bit better of an excuse. They aren't there to convince you to join so much as for you to tell them what specific job you want to do. These are the people that look up your scores and compare that to job requirements and then check for openings in that job. They process tons of people per day, many of which have no idea what they want to do other than "work on computers" or "fix planes" or whatever. The key to coming out of this is to do your research well before you go. Narrow down what you want to do to a few jobs and know their code for whichever branch you are talking to. These people are experts at human resources stuff, not the details of whatever career you want. They probably won't be able to answer much unless they came from that career or know someone in that career. The best bet is to get your recruiter to arrange some time to meet people in the career field you are interested in and get the answers that way.
4. Go to basic training. Everyone goes, no way past that.
5. Go to your school. Each branch does this a bit differently, but after basic training you will go to the school for your chosen job. This could be 2 weeks long, it could be 2 years long, all depends on the job.
6. Pray for your assignment. Now you are in, you have the career you want, and now it is a roll of the dice. You go where they need your career, period. There are a number of programs to finagle your way around to places you want, but don't expect any of them to help you much in your early days. Your best bet here is to do a damned good job, don't be a fuckup, and let your supervisors know what your goals are. Good supervisors will help you get where you want to go. Above all else, don't expect it to happen quickly.
National Guard units basically follow the same steps, except for the assignment process. With the Guard you will be joining a specific unit when you enlist. So you will already know exactly what your assignment will be. The Guard units are able to do much more targeted recruiting because of this. The Active Duty world you kind of go into a big pot and stay there unless you managed to get into special assignments (usually by being really good at what you do and leaning forward for opportunities).
Re:Recruitment (Score:5, Insightful)
"But the recruiter promised me" means absolutely nothing.
If it isn't in writing, don't expect it to happen.
The corollary to this is: if it is in writing and you have to sue, at best expect a Pyrrhic victory.
The real #5 (Score:2)
or #7 Get moved off your assignment and send to the front lines. As some who got hurt there is taking your assignment.
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If you look at past interviews with the Air Force and Army, you will find that they work with a significant number of contractors. So you do not need to be "in the armed forces" to work on anti-cyber terrorism.
Obviously you need to be able to get a security clearance.
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Obviously quasi-military operations need lots more in the way of security cleara
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What limitations do you observe? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Why does the Army have a love affair with Windows (Score:5, Interesting)
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Yeah, I've always found it hilarious that the IA (Information Assurance) guys tout the glorious impenetrable securities of Windows, even though nothing missions critical runs on Windows.
Ironically, the reason they are pushing Windows is not the security. It's the control. With windows you can remotely disable pretty much anything within a Domain. A person could have administrative access on their Domain attached work station and still not be able to do anything beyond what the Domain administrator allows.
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Jurisdiction? (Score:5, Interesting)
Avoiding Redundancy or is it Necessary? (Score:5, Interesting)
Payment (Score:2)
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Source Code (Score:3, Interesting)
I realize this is based on the assumption that we know what OS and programs they are running, but Windows for instance, it's reasonable to assume that most computer users use some form of it either legally aquired or illegally.
Timing and relevancy (Score:5, Interesting)
Can you explain what seems to be the US Military arriving at the game in the third inning?
Having had TSEC and observed security processes and procedures, such as tempest precautions some time ago, I'm having trouble understanding why the 'cyber defenses' of the US Military only now seem to be actually realized.
Is the delay due to funding? Priorities? or simply to underestimation of what the rest of the world was up to all this time?
Please be as specific as you are able to be.
Thank you.
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Never forget that the government, and especially the military, is just a big, inefficient, management heavy 1970's style corporation.
Are you running botnets? (Score:5, Interesting)
Slashdotter (Score:2, Interesting)
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Threat Assessment (Score:5, Interesting)
How do you perform a threat assessment in the area of cyber-warfare where the physical weapons (as was pointed out in an earlier post) is the keyboard and mouse with much of technology being used as a threat being developed in the U.S?
Thanx,
myke
"Civilian contractors" (Score:5, Interesting)
Hurdles of Cyber Warfare (Score:5, Interesting)
One issue to cyber warfare is linguistics. How does a military unit overcome this? Does the unit consist of people skilled at the various languages used in theater plus the technical concepts required to execute, or are you forced to cooperate with any other agency?
Also, agency cooperation: are there good relationships between the cyberwarfare units and the intelligence community, and can you say whether or not there are SOPs in place that would utilize cyberwarfare units in conjunction with a physical offensive, i.e. disable Three Gorges Dam right before an op.
Thanks for the time!
Computer Literacy (Score:5, Interesting)
Daemon? (Score:3, Interesting)
Do you think The Singularity is approaching, and if so, do you think you're prepared for it?
Materiel isn't a typo in the summary (Score:3, Informative)
Like on Star Trek (Score:2)
Are We At War? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is there any traditional military precedent for tolerating these attacks to the extent we do? Is that hesitancy making us weaker, so our eventual delayed military (or "cyber-military") response will be compromised from winning the conflict to our satisfaction?
At what point do these attacks constitute acts of war, does that need to be declared by Congress, and how does the "cyber command" change its response at that point?
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What value does doign it in the Army add? (Score:5, Insightful)
Would you agree that a special, single cyber-defense branch should be created to assist all branches of the military as well as non-military?
Generally the armed forces are never known for technical prowess. (They are more consumers than creators) The role of creation comes from contractors. Why shouldn't we rely on contractors to perform these functions when contractors already obtain top-secret clearances? Contractors compete for projects which ensures a level of cost limitation (lets face it, Cost+ rips off the tax payer), continual advancement (beyond what the enemy throws at us).
Why should the armed forces be doing this in-house?
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On 2nd thought, I retract my challenging questions because I don't want to be labeled an enemy combatant, stripped of my Habeus Corpus rights and thrown in GitMo for questioning the wisdom of the military and by constru
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Traditionally, the armed forces are separated b
A military brat asks: (Score:3, Interesting)
In your work as Director of IO for Combined Joint Task Force -76, what were your greatest challenges in Afghanistan? What technology threats other than IEDs were your greatest concern?
Making defenses availible to the tax payers (Score:5, Insightful)
What limitations or rules would you use for release of such information?
Witty and the US Military... (Score:2)
Defensive or offensive? (Score:2)
Also, do you see the existence of your department as a possible deterrent for hostile organizations to use IT effectively?
What do you do? (Score:2)
- Support operations for army units overseas (peacetime/wartime)
- Independent internet warfare during war time (Say WW3)
- Independent internet defense during peacetime
- Independent Offense/intelligence gathering during peacetime
- Consulting for companies/agencies hardening their networks
- Finding backdoors in preparation for an e
Is the Chinese government telling the truth? (Score:2)
Do you believe they're telling the truth? More specifically, do you believe they are as "unskilled" as they claim to be along these lines?
Do Army and Air Force Branches ever do blue on red (Score:2)
If not, why the heck not?
If so, who wins most?
Crime and skills maintainance in peacetime (Score:2)
simple question... (Score:2)
we know that he knows how to "point and click".
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Peace is a valid concept (Score:5, Insightful)
If you think it is possible to have a world where there are no armed forces, you are not adovcating for a peaceful world when you say that. You are in fact unknowingly advocating for a more brutal, injust and violent world. This is so simply because you have not yet made yourself acquainted with, or made peace with (no irony intended), certain ugly but unremovable aspects of fundamental human nature.
Or, you could try to remove those aspects of human nature in the name of peace. This sets you down the road to autocracy, and makes you an enemy of free will and free expression. If you wish to continue to respect the notion of free will and free expression, you must understand why a force of arms is always necessary to be at the ready, in the name of peace.
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s/nature/ego/
here, fixed for you.
Very young children do not have ego. But parents are polluting their minds with a vision of a hostile, violent world. Kids often become exact mental copies of their parents. When you're born, you're a blank sheet of paper.
Animals do not have ego. They never hunt more than they could eat. Period.
When you're truly happy, you also don't have ego. You just keep laughing or smiling or whatever, you dance and sing, or you just sit or walk or run, s
your model of human nature is invalid (Score:3, Insightful)
without understanding this simple concept, your opinions, that you hold in great regard, are simply dysfunctional, and yet you cling to them anyway
how very egotistical of you
Egads! Where to start? (Score:4, Insightful)
Ever watch a mountain lion kill a deer, eat it's fill, then wander off to let the bulk of the deer rot? I have. How about dogs that are not fenced in killing cats for fun, or wildlife? Yep, seen that too...many times. How about the cats killing stuff and bringing it home as a trophy? Yep, all the time again.
You have no clue here on this subject.
"Oh, and btw. I don't really care what anyone thinks about it." and (in the same paragraph) "But I'd really love to see more people discussing peace rather than war."
So, you don't care what anyone else thinks about it, just what you think is important. Right.
The rest of your clueless diatribe is not even worth discussing, so crawl back into your mom's basement and use some of that internet time to get at least a LITTLE education instead of trolling forums, you will benefit from it tremendously.
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