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Microsoft

MS Oversight Committee Hopeful Stephen Satchell Answers 228

How great is Stephen Satchell's chance of being named to a court-ordered Microsoft oversight committee, assuming such a thing actually gets set up? And how much influence will a Slashdot interview have on the people who make those appointments? Probably not much, but Satch sure did a thorough job of answering your questions about how he'd behave if selected, and why he feels he's qualified.

Satchell:
Before I get to your questions, I want to say something. Given my druthers, I would not be "campaigning" for a seat on the Technical Oversight Committee -- I'd rather be writing code, publishing articles and books, and testing the hell out of computer products. I like what I do today. Unfortunately, I have to act as a grown-up and recognize that there are some things more important than my personal comfort. I feel that, given my skill set, the TC is where I need to be. If they'll have me. Bob Cringley wrote that I "wanted" the job. I don't blame Bob for the slight inaccuracy, because having been a magazine columnist I know what it's like to write to a specified "news hole." Sometimes nuances get dropped when you have exactly 500 words to get your thesis across.

I apologize for correcting spelling and punctuation in the questions submitted by the readers. Blame the writer in me. Besides, Slashdot has enough mispelt words as it is.

So as Art Baker used to say on television every week, "You Asked For It!"

1) What makes you the best man for the job?
by Binestar

Do you have any special agenda to get across or have anything for/against Microsoft that would make it so you were not impartial in your oversight of any federal rulings? As much as most people hate them this needs to be done in a fair and impartial way; will you be able to be fair and impartial?

Satchell:
No, I have no special agenda or strong feelings about Microsoft pro or con. And I don't love or hate the company. Microsoft is neither "good" nor "evil."

And (as the lawyers would say) even if I did have some bias, I've proven to the satisfaction of the computer industry, and to the satisfaction of several judges over the years, that I can be fair and impartial in my evaluations even in the face of bias. (Most of the companies who suffered my reviews add the word "tough" to "fair" and "impartial" in their description of me.)

As I read the explanatory text in the Competitive Impact Statement (CIS), the Technical Committee performs investigations and evaluations of Microsoft's compliance with the terms of the Final Judgement as issued by the Judge, using software expertise -- which is a requirement for being on the Technical Committee -- to catch those things that might otherwise fly by a legal beagle. In other words, the TC is a fact-finding body, and as long as it finds the facts, all the facts, and nothing but the facts it will discharge its job fairly and impartially. The Proposed Final Judgement (PFJ) doesn't do as good a job of explaining it all, but will most likely be the controlling document.

Brian Kendig asked a side question that bears answering: "How will I be able to work with Microsoft without appearing to be biased?" Another question asked about how I would deal with the monster egos at Microsoft. I'll kill two birds with one stone; let me tell you a little story:

Over the years I have worked with the Telecommunications Industry Association, a "standards provider" recognized by ANSI. A number of years ago, a TIA Standards ballot crossed my desk, SP-2812, that described a method of encoding commands and multiple data streams in computer-to-modem connections for enhanced fax and voice-over-data support, among other things - the cellular people started using it, too.. Most of the work on this Standard was contributed by a Microsoft representative (MR), who was also the editor for the Standard. (If the MR in question wants to identify himself, he can do so - he reads Slashdot.) The Standard was virtually unreadable as balloted. After working a full two days to understand what the Standard was trying to say, I was able to construct a description that was clearer, covered all the corner cases, and left room for future expansion. I then voted "No" and faxed my vote and comments to the TIA. The committee chairman asked if I would meet with the SP-2812 editor - the Microsoft representative - as soon as I could. "Mr. MR has a huge ego," said the chairman. We met, we argued, we discussed, and we came to an understanding. I prepared a "contribution" that was a rewrite of the contents of the ballot. The result was EIA 617, better known to the rest of you as ITU Recommendation V.80.

2) Do you feel it is possible to have a unified MS?
by petree

Do you feel that it is possible to have a unified monolithic Microsoft exist in the market without being anti-competitive? Specifically, if the United States government leaves Microsoft as-is (no "break-up") do you feel it is possible to regulate a company that in the past has shown no respect for government intervention?

Satchell:
Yes. Interestingly, it's the TC portion of the PFJ that lets me make that affirmative. Let me explain my take on it.

The effective sales life of a version of commercial software is now one year. The time required to get redress for grievance via lawsuit is around four years. Four years is more than enough time for a commercial software company to crash, die, crumble to dust, and blow away so that there is absolutely nothing left of it. Even if the software company wins its case against Microsoft, it's a Pyrrhic victory because the company will have lost where it counts most, in the marketplace.

The key to making the Final Judgment work to the short window dictated by the commercial-software market cycle is that the TC and Microsoft's Judgement Compliance Officer can solve a problem informally, rather than the complaining party and Microsoft taking years to build and litigate a case. It costs everyone less money, too.

In the academic and non-commercial software market, the key bottleneck isn't time, it's money. Very few non-commercial software efforts can raise the money required to take on the 360-kilogram gorilla - most of the time the leaders of such projects just sigh and go to Plan "B." With the TC (and some changes, hopefully, in the PFJ to allow academic, government, and non-commercial software projects to have standing) the cost of resolving a disclosure difficulty drops dramatically. That means that researchers, government employees, and non-profit developers can spend time getting the job done, not scratching their heads wondering how to do the job.

3) Asking slashdot?
by heyetv

Are you concerned that tying yourself to Slashdot, a known haven for us *nix freaks that are generally hostile towards Microsoft's actions, will harm your chances of obtaining this position, as it would require that those appointing the position perceive you as "objective"?

Satchell:
No. I welcome this opportunity.

I was asked by Slashdot if I would consent to be interviewed, and I agreed. This is no different than if ABC, CNN, InfoWorld, or The Wall Street Journal had called and asked for an interview.

Let me be blunt: I believe the Slashdot readership extends far beyond the boundaries you suggest. If you look at all of the questions that earned at least a +3 score from the reader-moderators, I believe you would see what I see: a broad cross-section of thoughts, opinion, and concern about the effects of the Microsoft Final Judgement. Slashdot questions are different than those that might be posed by a panel of journalists, or a panel of lawyers, or a panel of businessmen. I welcome the questions that Slashdotters ask because I suspect, frankly, no one else will ask quite the questions you have. And those (these) questions deserve answers from each and every candidate.

I would just as readily and as eagerly answer the ten most-insightful questions from, say, a community of Microsoft Certified Engineers or the Fraternal Order of Windows OEMs.

Slashdot isn't exactly a private club, either. My answers to your questions will be read (dissected?) by a wider audience than just those who have slashdot.org in the Bookmarks file of Netscape on their Linux or BSD systems. Count on it.

4) Restrict What?
by JJ

In what areas/functions must Microsoft be restricted in order for it not to violate anti-trust rules in the future? Endless loop:(n); see Loop, Endless.

Satchell:
That's part of the Great Debate between the Microsoft lawyers and the gaggle of Plaintiff lawyers. As you may have read recently, the Plaintiffs have divided on the issue over the number of yards to penalize Microsoft. The DoJ camp feel that ten yards is enough. The California camp feel that fifteen yards plus loss of down is more appropriate, and grumble that perhaps splitting up the Microsoft team into multiple "independent" teams shouldn't be taken off the table. It's now up to you fans to voice your opinion about the call. Unlike your federal elected representatives, the Department of Justice is required by law to respond to your comments, and the judge has to take that response into account.

The Technical Committee will then work within the framework of what the judge decides. I suspect that the rules of play following the pronouncement of the Final Judgement will require some tweaking and amplification once it gets going. The Court writes the rule-book. The TC will be the refs.

The biggest area of restriction that I see is Microsoft's use of NDAs to keep secret things that would block a non-Microsoft program from interoperating with Microsoft products. Much of the PFJ waxes long on this particular subject. Information is power.

5) What Would You Do With Passive Committee Partners?
by UberOogie

What would you do if you were saddled with two other do-nothings on your committee?

Satchell:
For the purpose of this answer, I'll assume that you do not intend to imply that I would be a do-nothing. Otherwise, what's the point? There would be too many lawyers watching for a slacker to get away with it for long, I would think.

If you have never bid on a Federal contract, you wouldn't believe the amount of law that covers the behavior of contractors, and the PFJ makes clear that each member of the TC would be a contractor of the United States Government. When I prepared a bid for a Patent and Trademark Office contract, the applicable law as described in the Code of Federal Regulations ran for more than 150 pages.

The TC members had damn well better care, and work hard and fairly.

6) How tough?
by silicon_synapse

Microsoft is sure to test their boundaries and see how far the overseers will let them go. How much would Microsoft have to stray from the new regulations before you make some noise? Would you be tough and bring to attention the most minor of infractions? Or would you be more lenient and use your judgement to make sure the intent of the regulations are observed?

Satchell:
Good question. One of the nice things that the CIS stresses is that the minor stuff is intended to be settled informally. That implies to me that "the most minor of infractions" can be cleared up quickly and without any attention needed by the lawyers, let alone a judge. That's good for Microsoft, that's good for the TC, that's good for the lawyers who should have better things to do, but most importantly it's good for the outside party with the complaint because, with the dispute resolved quickly, that outside party can get back to the business of developing and out of the business of bellyaching.

Not stated anywhere (yet) is what happens when there is a legitimate difference of opinion about what the Final Judgement really means. Legitimate differences of opinion regarding the meaning of clauses in the Final Judgement might be "kicked upstairs" for resolution or clarification; alternatively, if the TC staff includes a parliamentarian a proposal could be prepared and negotiated at the TC/Compliance-Liaison level and kicked upstairs for an up-or-down decision, again quickly. That's one of the many details that would need to be determined once the Final Judgement is in place.

More importantly and implied in the PFJ is that the TC's six-month report would be able to show any pattern of tendency toward non-compliance and edge-skating, a defect in the 1995 decree that made micro-infractions, to coin a term, almost impossible to track.

7) Playing the devil's advocate...
by BOredAtWork

While the methods Microsoft has used to become an industry giant are questionable, to say the least, the fact is, they are THE industry giant now. Microsoft is responsible for a great number of jobs, conducts research that would be too expensive for almost anyone else, and MSFT is a staple of a great many investment portfolios. Assuming you would become partially responsible for ensuring their compliance with federal regulations, part of your job will inevitably become spin control.

To break Microsoft's chokehold on the industry will send their stock into a tailspin, cause their R&D cycle to slow, and cause a chaotic move for power in various niches by everyone from giants such as IBM to various smaller companies that most people have never heard of. This will cause ripples (or shock waves) in everything from the Dow Jones Industrial Average to unemployment figures to the number of dot-coms that show up and fail at trying to corner a niche to the price of new computers.

My question for you, then, is the following: If you do assume a role such that you oversee Microsoft's compliance with federal guidelines, how will you keep the ripple effects caused by your enforcement in check, and how will you justify the ripples that inevitably are created to the American people?

Satchell:
First, let me disagree in part with your first statement. Microsoft, from the beginning, had a set of axioms of operation that I believe were well-suited to the company as a start-up, served as well during its mid-growth, and led them into anti-competitive action when they became a monopoly. The axioms: "if you use it, you pay for it"; and, "we don't support products from other companies."

Some of the anti-competitive behavior described during trial was proven to be intentional and not related to company axioms, so I'm not trying to excuse Microsoft. That doesn't detract from the fact that some of their acts were good intentions coupled with bad choices, the usual paving material for the road to damnation.

Your question suffers from a touch of tunnel vision, methinks. Heikkile makes the point that Microsoft's actions go far beyond the borders and citizenry of the United States. I believe that the enforcement action that the various settlement documents contemplate will be sufficient to help everyone, not just the "American companies." As a TC member, I can put forward that anyone should be able to put forward a complaint...as long as it's in English. You can put that forward yourself, in your letter to the DoJ about your feelings about the proposed settlement.

The goal of the DoJ is to craft a Final Judgement that will stop anti-competitive behavior, reverse any gains Microsoft may have gotten from anti-competitive behavior, and keep Microsoft more on the straight and narrow in the future. The goal of the Technical Committee, as I see it, is to reduce the pain level to all involved when Microsoft strays over the line, to get Microsoft back in line with a minimum of fuss, delay, and fireworks.

I opine some more: by keeping the company intact, the PFJ doesn't upset the millions of business arrangements already in place, from developers to packagers to retailers to OEMs to volume customers. By DoJ's losing on the bundling/integration issue, Microsoft is saved from having to rebuild its operating system products and creating even more skews of its product line, which in turn saves on technical support by Microsoft and, more importantly, retraining at the OEM, retail, and IT level. In short, the DoJ/Microsoft PFJ already works to keeps the ripple effect down to something manageable, which says to me that the DoJ learned some things from its experiences with AT&T.

I repeat: the sole function of the Technical Committee is to keep Microsoft honest and to help them keep to the agreement they made with the Plaintiffs and the judgements of the Court. By doing my job to the letter, by the book, and according to Hoyle I would be minimizing the ripple effects while permitting Microsoft a chance to continue to do what it has done, bring product to market, and let the marketplace decide thumbs-up or thumbs-down.

8) To boldly go insane....
by jd

This may seem like a really obvious question, but how do you propose to oversee an organization the size and complexity of Microsoft, by yourself and maybe two others?

Microsoft has managed to avoid scrutiny by companies, courts, governments and even users. Many allegations made in the trial, such as "knifing the baby" remarks alleged by Netscape, would simply not be visible, by simply looking at Official Policy Documents. In fact, probably very little actual policy DOES appear in their Official Policy Documents.

In short, you can't hunt ghosts with an electron microscope. You need knowledge of what the right job is, and then you need the tools to do it.

Do you even remotely imagine that this is even possible?

Satchell:
It's obviously impossible. You're right, policing at the level you describe is a task too large for even 300 people, let along three. I doubt it's desirable, either. That would be like having your very own cop sitting in the back seat of your car every time you drive, writing a ticket every time you rolled a stop sign or cut a left turn (right turn for you Brits) too close.

If you read the Competitive Impact Statement, you will see that it contemplates that the Technical Committee will be complaint-driven. Because the process for the complaint (not yet defined, by the way) should be less onerous than filing a lawsuit with the 800-pound gorilla, people who feel that Microsoft has violated the agreement with respect to them will file complaints.

As suggested by the CIS, the TC will have to do some kind of triage and prioritize the complaints, and group like complaints together. Then they will investigate the complaints and work with the Microsoft Compliance Liaison Officer to see if there is a simple fix for the problem. If there is, the fix is put in place and the file closed and logged.

And if it can't be fixed? The TC reports to the Plaintiff committee, providing all information available about the complaint. It's then up to the Plaintiff committee to decide what to do. It could be as simple as a lawyer-to-lawyer phone call and directions to the TC and the Compliance Officer. It could be as complex as a special court hearing. Who knows? But all that stuff is above the TC's pay grade.

The PFJ anticipates that the TC may well need a staff. This wouldn't be a large staff, and would be sized according to the load. No, I'm not taking resumes... :)

One reason I suspect that the members of the Technical Committee must be "experts in software design and programming" is to minimize the "staff effect" that cripples the decision-making process in many oversight committees. If the members themselves have the background to understand the underlying issues, to judge the clues found in the source, books, and memos, and to assimilate the Microsoft technical and non-technical response, you eliminate the mini-trials that are the hallmark of the operation of many government regulatory boards. You also eliminate the exclusive judgement of staff, people who do not take the heat for their decisions like a member would or should.

9) The obvious question...
by Stonehead

Where lies in your opinion the boundary between anti-competitive functionality and "improving the users' experience"? By now, everybody is used to bundling a browser with the OS. But what about video-editing software? The (Sun) Java VM or the .NET Common Language Runtime? Passport? etcetera..

Satchell:
As a member of the Technical Committee, my opinions in this matter are, frankly, not applicable. Other people decide the policy, the TC just implements the policy as set by the judge. But it's an interesting question, and I'm happy to take a stab at it. To wit, my opinion:

Richard M. Stallman asked the right question a long time ago: "If it's broke, how do I fix it?"

There is a BIG difference between "bundling" and "integrating" user-land applications into an operating system. If Microsoft wants to bundle a DVD-ROM full of stuff with Windows 2006, I say more power to them...as long as I don't have to have any part of Windows Recording Studio in order to install Syntrillium's CoolEdit as my multi-channel wave editor.

On the other hand, Microsoft has to be able to test and support functionality that the users want, or say they want. In the enterprise environment, the ability to install patches from a central facility is a real boon to the Information Technology department. Integrating everything together reduces the technical support headache for Microsoft. If it reduces the time for a tech support call, that's money saved, either for Microsoft for warranty support or the user if he or she is buying by-the-incident support services, or for the IT department if it provides its own support. Fewer variables.

And that is where "competition" and "user experience" clash. The optimal solution from Microsoft's perspective is also anti-competitive, not because they are worried about sales but because they are worried about tech support cost. The optimal solution from the perspective of Big Business is to standardize on a single solution that can be deployed, and if Microsoft's solution doesn't do the trick then Big Business will find someone else who can do the trick. The optimal solution from the perspective of the home user is that something happens magically. The optimal solution from the perspective of the SOHO user is to have none of it, because the SOHO computer is an attractive target for the Black Hats and the SOHO user doesn't want to have to spend $2K on a super-tricked-out firewall appliance between his computer and the outside world.

If it's broke, how do I fix it? Any solution MUST answer that question, for all users.

10a) Corruption?
by jamesidm

What is in place to prevent Microsoft from potentially bribing you or other members of the committee? Would you turn down 7 figure offers for the good of the computing community?

-- plus --

10b) Re: Corruption?
by Odinson

Perhaps I could elaborate with my intended question.

Do you think board members should make themselves available for financial audits?

If so...

How deep into the board members lives can the audits go and how long after their stay on the board should their financial records be reviewed?

Satchell:
The Technical Committee has a report it has to file every six months (every month if I have any say) that details what it's done and the rationale it used for its decisions. An experienced lawyer is very, very good at seeing BS in reports like that.

And now for something I don't expect anyone here to believe: I've turned down bribes while I was a product reviewer. I turned down money. I turned down sex. I turned down neat toys. Several of my colleagues said I was a fool to turn down all that stuff - indeed, I have a long-running feud with a well-known writer over the importance of the appearance of being ethical. He tells people I commit "fiscal suicide." (Don't worry, I have equally nasty things to say about him. It balances.)

Ever been fired from a job because you couldn't lie? I have. Now you know. (Hint: it wasn't a magazine that wanted me to lie. Not that I would.) I'm just not good at lying. In order to be successfully corrupt, you have to be able to lie convincingly. I don't have that skill.

I expect that as a TC member I would have to file financial disclosure forms, that indicate major sources of income plus investments. I filed these as a journalist and as a reviewer, so I don't have a problem with that.

As for audits: people, please! This is the UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE we are talking about. If DoJ suspects ANY problem, they have an in-house investigative arm that you may have heard of: the Federal Bureau of Investigation. With the power to probe into any aspect of my life that they choose.

===

That's it for your ten questions as selected by Slashdot editors. There were other good questions that I think deserve a response, so I'll lump answers to them in the next handful of paragraphs.

First, in my lab I run 14 systems variously populated with Windows (98SE and 2000 Pro), Linux (Slackware and Red Hat), and MacOS (8.5) on a 6400. I have a couple of Sun boxes loaded with Solaris, too, but they aren't running right now. All but one Windows system dual-boots Linux. I have an early BeOS CD-ROM, but it's been a while since I loaded it. My 286 box has QNX on it, but that's been powered off for a long time. The last MS-DOS box bit the dust last year. I switch between operating systems frequently, choosing the one that is best suited to do the job that needs to be done. The general-purpose Linux boxes all have SAMBA, and one of those SAMBA boxes is my Windows domain controller. (I'm trying to get HP to give me Linux software to make my Network Scanner 5 work with my Linux domain controller - no luck. Anyone at HP listening?) I may be forced to load the copy of Windows NT Server I have on the shelf, or I may put the newly-acquired HP Kayak into that service. The house is wired with 100-base T, and there are a couple of ethernet switches to break up the collection into logical groups.

I have written software for resale that runs on Ultrix, SunOS, Windows, MacOS, Linux, MS-DOS, and Hunter & Ready's VRTX. I have written operating systems for embedded products, and worked on operating systems all through my 30-year career.

Some high points: Worked on ARPAnet while at University of Illinois. Software and system design for embedded-computer products at Rockwell, Recognition Equipment, Addressograph-Multigraph. Benchmark writer at InfoWorld. Technical editor at InfoWorld. Built modem test lab at Ziff-Davis Labs. SPECmark member via MacUser magazine (did SPECmarks for early 680x0 Macs). Editor of the modem testing standard for TIA (now EIA 3800). Reviewed and wrote about more than 600 products in over 400 articles. Wrote Linux IP Stacks Commentary for Coriolis Books. Work at the annual Glenn Tenney THINK conference. Cameraman for local PBS station. Test Manager at Motorola ISG on the soft-modem project. Ran BBSes, BIX Telecom Exchange, assisted with CompuServie IBMSIG. Wrote, sold, and supported OTTO suite for analog modem testing.

I have never worked for Microsoft or any operating system vendor in any capacity, technical or non-technical. Microsoft and its direct competitors, directly or through PR representatives, have never paid me a dime, given me a T-shirt, or gifted me with a logo-bearing yo-yo. All Microsoft products that I've gotten through the years were purchased, bundled with systems, or were evaluation units (clearly marked "not for resale") provided to me in my capacity as a member of the working press and obtained through [Microsoft's PR agency] WaggEd .

Some yahoo bitched about how obtuse my contribution to W3C was. My training as a writer taught me how to write to an audience. That contribution - a formal response to a W3C position paper - was written in Standard-ese. I hope the bozo sees the difference between that paper (written for stuffed shirts) and this little tome. Don't like it? Write me.

Remember the Cyberporn story Time magazine ran in 1995? A bunch of us on alt.internet.media-coverage who work in the press fumed and fumed about that story. After much discussion, and many complaints from others who fumed that we were taking over the newsgroup, we decided to form The Internet Press Guild as a resource to mainstream press people who got an Internet beat without knowing much about it. So far, nothing as bad as the infamous "Rimm Job" has hit the mainstream press since we started.

I was an OS architect a number of years ago, so I understand the mind-set all too well. Grew out of it, but I remember the feelings, the attitudes, the arrogance. It helps to understand the organization you are about to oversee. Microsoft is one of the few organizations I have ever encountered that exhibits the mind-set, behavior, and mannerisms of the OS architect.

If I don't get the job, I'll just continue doing what I'm doing today. If the TC that is selected does a bad job and the computer industry craters, I'll seek out a new career. It's that simple.

That should do it. Now some of you know just a little more about me than you did before.

PS: To be complete, I should mention I'm not the only one with my hat in the ring. John Dvorak announced his "candidacy" in his November 2, 2001 column in PC Magazine. You need to talk with him about his qualifications for sitting on the Technical Committee.

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

MS Oversight Committee Hopeful Stephen Satchell Answers

Comments Filter:
  • Whew (Score:4, Funny)

    by bribecka ( 176328 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @12:09PM (#2715342) Homepage
    Where are the "I don't know, dude" answers? I miss those.
  • Top 10 (Score:2, Redundant)

    by FortKnox ( 169099 )
    I understand that Slashdot likes to send the top 10 highest scored posts. But there were a LOT of Score:5 posts.

    Why not change the rule to "Top 10 highest scored posts, or all score:5 posts, whichever is larger"?

    That way there won't be conspiracy theory behind which posts you choose, and you let the slashdot population hear all the answers they thought were important.

    Honestly, I don't think the person answering the questions wouldn't mind more questions (although, there were like 20+ score:5 posts), but you can always say "answer the questions you like, combine some, and skip some if you like", that way its the answerer that can pick and choose.

    Just an suggestion...
    • That's it for your ten questions as selected by Slashdot editors. There were other good questions that I think deserve a response, so I'll lump answers to them in the next handful of paragraphs.

      Did you miss that part? He looked at the postings and answered more than what they sent him. Other interviewees have the same ability.
    • Simple answers (Score:5, Insightful)

      by roystgnr ( 4015 ) <roy AT stogners DOT org> on Monday December 17, 2001 @12:29PM (#2715429) Homepage
      Why not change the rule to "Top 10 highest scored posts, or all score:5 posts, whichever is larger"?

      1. Because the interviewee was told to expect 10 questions, budgeted time for 10 questions, and doesn't deserve to have that sort of bait-n-switch pulled on them.

      2. Because having 20 Score: 5 questions shouldn't happen - it's an aberration of stupid moderators who missed the opportunity to winnow down the question pool themselves, by desperately hoping they can mark up and help their own favorite Score:3 post, rather than mark down (this is one instance where "Overrated" should actually be used) a bunch of Score: 5 questions that they think shouldn't be asked.
      • Re:Simple answers (Score:2, Insightful)

        by zmooc ( 33175 )
        Or maybe...just maybe...the size of the discussions on /. is starting to outgrow a 7-point-moderating system. I really believe that it's about time for 8 or maybe 9 points. Another "problem" is that more and more people (like me) have got enough karma to post on +2 and do so allt the time. Sometimes there are threads which only have +2 posts in them. Since they're usually not overall stupid, they won't be modded down which leaves us with only 4 levels of moderation. And in large discussions this turns out to be not enough.

        Another solution to this specific (I mean in interviews) problem, is to give every logged in user 1 positive moderation point in this article so they can mod up only one question. This in combination with more levels of moderation would totally solve the problem.... Maybe:)


      • (this is one instance where "Overrated" should actually be used)

        This raises an interesting question: How does one meta-mod such a mod? Don't you have to know what the score was at the time the moderation was performed in order to moderate it? If I see a post moderated as "overrated", whether or not I consider that fair depends a WHOLE LOT on whether this mod was done when the score was +2 or when it was +5.
    • Re:Top 10 (Score:5, Insightful)

      by buffy ( 8100 ) <buffy@pa[ ]et.net ['rap' in gap]> on Monday December 17, 2001 @01:05PM (#2715601) Homepage
      "...but you can always say "answer the questions you like, combine some, and skip some if you like..."

      Hmm...perhaps your suggestion should be floated to mainstram media too... I can see it now. Barbara Walter's Interview with Osama Bin Laden.

      BW: "Osama-Why did you arrange to kill 4,000+ Americans? What is your favorite color?"

      OBL: "Brown."

      Ok...so /. isn't really a traditional journalism outlet, however given as much criticism as they recieve for that fact, why would they want to go further against basic standards of journalism? You do not let your interviewee pick the questions. If you do, your interview becomes no more than a sales pitch for them.

      This is a problem dealt with frequently, particularly during election cycles.
    • Re:Top 10 (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Roblimo ( 357 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @01:07PM (#2715613) Homepage Journal
      We've tried all these changes already at one time or another, and pulled back from them for the following reasons:

      1) Some interviewees ducked the hardest questions when we let them choose which ones to answer.

      2) Many people we interview are too busy to answer more than 10 questions.

      3) No matter what we do, the conspiracy theorists will come up with conspiracy theories about why we did it. I long ago accepted the fact that Slashdot is run by (pick one) space aliens; the CIA; the Corporate Conspiracy; the Illuminati; Jews; Nazis; Satan; Democrats; CowboyNeal. (And how do you know this post is from the "real" Roblimo, anyway? Probably an imposter!)

      4) Most of the time, if we have more than 10 questions moderated +5, once we eliminate duplicates and those from people who don't understand the meaning of, "One question per post, please," we end up with just about 10 questions.

      5) We have never stopped interviewees from answering additional questions, and many do, espcially those who (like Satch) are regular Slashdot readers.

      - Robin
      • Thanks Roblimo!

        I really like it when you guys answer questions in comments. Really helps your image to us conspiracy theorist about you guys reading the comments and stuff.
        I see your points, and they make sense. Although, some interviewees still, occasionally, skip tough questions, and you forgot about the "trilateral commission" and the "masons" ;-), but I'll submit to your reasons, and withdraw my suggestion.... that is... unless I'm talking to the "Roblimo b0t" you guys have been testing *loud minor chord* (like at the end of a James Bond movie)......
      • That sounds like an interesting poll question. I vote for the Greys. Or maybe SEELE.
    • Re:Top 10 (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Omerna ( 241397 )
      He did this a little bit, I assume, with his extra responses at the end... I think sending the interviewee the URL of the discussion would be a better plan. That way (s)he can answer any questions- even if they're not rated 5 or even 4.
    • Or perhaps the max score of 5 is inadequete for this puropose. It makes some sense for normal posts, but for question proposals we need more differentiation. As you said, we get so many +5 posts that the decision of which to put forth ends up being the editor's call rather than based on user votes like it was intended to be.

      Perhaps the right thing to do is to retain the real score for these posts, but still cap it at 5 for the sake of calculating the poster's Karma.

  • He's right (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17, 2001 @12:23PM (#2715400)
    And now for something I don't expect anyone here to believe: I've turned down bribes while I was a product reviewer. I turned down money. I turned down sex.

    Here I was, reading along, thinking "smart geek", then - bam! - he throws it all away in four words ...
  • The effective sales life of a version of commercial software is now one year. The time required to get redress for grievance via lawsuit is around four years. Four years is more than enough time for a commercial software company to crash, die, crumble to dust, and blow away so that there is absolutely nothing left of it. Even if the software company wins its case against Microsoft, it's a Pyrrhic victory because the company will have lost where it counts most, in the marketplace.

    This was part of the answer given to the question of how any "regulation" of M$ could ever work. Does anyone else see the problem with this reasoning?

    I would say that the one and only reason "comercial" software only last one year is because of the games M$ plays as a monopolist. There is no technical reason for the bit rot seen on M$ platforms. Other OS do not have this problem at all.

    So why should we trust someone who will not own up to as much? The answer, that informal resolution will be speedier than formal litigation leaves much to be desired. If a formal court order holds no weight, why would M$ listen to some little TRC? Were are the teeth?

    • by RazzleFrog ( 537054 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @12:37PM (#2715475)
      I think you can look beyond Microsoft to see that many companies offer new versions of their software every 1-2 years. It's hard to find specific links with product version histories but I know that Adobe, Macromedia, Corel, etc. upgrade along that line. I also know that many business applications have new versions every year and often stop supporting older versions.

      I am not condoning this but I can tell you that there as bad if not worse culprits than Microsoft.
      • Adobe, Macromedia, Corel, etc. Were they pushed or were they pulled? Were these changes needed because M$ changed print methods? Did the new aplications break previous work? Where is the tumoil on other platforms? It's one thing to put up a new program that's better. It's quite another to break your old on so that a repacaged new one will sell. Bit rot is not real.

        Sadam is nasty. Ossama is nasty too, but that does not change my opinon of Sadam. One is the tool of the other.

        • I was looking forward to at last one anit-Microft rant. When last I checked, Adobe and Macromedia update their products on Apple also.

          I will also give you an example that doesn't involve any Microsoft product at all. Our General Ledger software is running on AIX. We had to update to an interim release to correct an issue (that happened to be new to the latest version). Unfortunately, with that release they have minimum requirements in order to receive support. To meet those requirements we had to update AIX and Oracle. So not only did we have to update their product because of a mistake that appeared in their latest release but we also had to update the OS and the Database so that we could continue to receive support from them. I am sure that other people have other non-MS stories.

          I think it is time you stop wasting your efforts bashing Microsoft and start looking at the deceipt and corruption that is in all companies. Profit and Customer Satisfaction are two diverging paths and every company will err towards the profit side.
          • You have to upgrade AIX and Oracle once a year? Did you lose any information? Somehow, I don't think so.
      • Microsoft hasn't offered a new version of windows since 1995 -- Unless you count the partial theme + spyware available in Thailand for $2.70 a new OS.
    • by satch89450 ( 186046 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @12:55PM (#2715551) Homepage
      The answer, that informal resolution will be speedier than formal litigation leaves much to be desired. If a formal court order holds no weight, why would M$ listen to some little TRC? Were are the teeth?

      I direct your attention to a part of my answer to question six:

      More importantly and implied in the PFJ is that the TC's six-month report [to the Plaintiffs] would be able to show any pattern of tendency toward non-compliance and edge-skating, a defect in the 1995 decree that made micro-infractions, to coin a term, almost impossible to track.

      Just because the resolution is informal and fast doesn't mean that Microsoft wouldn't have to take heat for the act. It just means that Joe Programmer doesn't have to wade through a court fight in order to learn how to interface with some arcane corner of Windows XP in order to get his product out the door.

    • I would say that the one and only reason "comercial" software only last one year is because of the games M$ plays as a monopolist. There is no technical reason for the bit rot seen on M$ platforms. Other OS do not have this problem at all.

      (Shit. This is what I get for being a professional writer, and over-editing my submissions. I should know better by now.)

      In the third draft of my answers, I mentioned that the reason for the annual cycle of commercial software stems from the wish of the software industry to keep revenue going even in a saturated marketplace, the changes in government regulations that manage to touch a huge number of business applications, and the yearly Battle of the Budget when IT departments have to "justify" their requests for the coming year by spending every dime in this year's budget. Not to mention deafening "NEW AND IMPROVED" rollouts at trade shows, shows whose dates are set over a year in advance -- before a particular software project is launched that has to meet the date or the marketing people say the product will die...

      Look at the software sold for other operating systems, and software that are operating systems in their own right. The pattern is very similar.

      With academic software, look for the pattern of changes and releases that coincide with the boundaries of marking periods (semester or quarter). Out with the old interns, in with the new...

      In Open Source software projects, the only time pressure is internal, or anxiousness from the user base.

      • (Shit. This is what I get for being a professional writer, and over-editing my submissions. I should know better by now.)

        In the third draft of my answers, I mentioned that the reason for the annual cycle of commercial software stems from the wish of the software industry to keep revenue going even in a saturated marketplace, the changes in government regulations that manage to touch a huge number of business applications, and the yearly Battle of the Budget when IT departments have to "justify" their requests for the coming year by spending every dime in this year's budget.

        Let's consider some others:
        IBM
        Sun
        Apple
        You will forgive me if I find software on the above platforms more stable than M$. x86 hardware has been very stable, why is it that M$ software has not? Don't all of the above companies exist in the same market, under the same pressures?

        Don't some companies simply give their software away and depend on advertising for revenue?
        JASC
        Eudora
        Netscape
        Why is it that they "upgrade" their M$ product so frequently? How is it that old versions start to rot in time? Where is the incentive for that?

        Techincal improvements and business model can only explain so much. What you are left with are M$ tricks. Emulation of such tricks by other companies does little to reasure me that M$ is not root cause of other disturbances on M$ OS.

  • Oh man! (Score:5, Funny)

    by BillyGoatThree ( 324006 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @12:26PM (#2715418)
    "I've turned down bribes while I was a product reviewer. I turned down money. I turned down sex. I turned down neat toys."



    It sounds like I'm working in the wrong end of the software business. Time to launch "willacceptsexforproductreviews.com"...

  • Enforcement (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17, 2001 @12:27PM (#2715419)
    This doesn't discuss the primary deficiency in the settlement:

    zero power of enforcement. If Microsoft ignores the panel, it just has to put up with the panel for another couple of years....when they still don't have any power.

    What can this guy do to get MS to change if he has to? Nothign.
  • Umm... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17, 2001 @12:28PM (#2715425)
    No, I have no special agenda or strong feelings about Microsoft pro or con. And I don't love or hate the company. Microsoft is neither "good" nor "evil."

    That is very hard to do. Almost everyone I know has taken sides on the Microsoft issue. I hope what you say is true.

    D/\ Gooberguy
    • Re:Umm... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by RazzleFrog ( 537054 )
      I think what he is saying that Microsoft as a company can not be good or evil. It is the actions of individuals that people should take issue with.
    • Some people can stay neutral despite the occasional "those fucking bastard" remarks after losing a couple hours of work to a BSOD.

      Personally, I make not like the way things are with MS, but I understand why they are that way and can accept it. They're just trying to make profits like everybody else. It's just that they're so damn big, whenever they "compete" in a market, they usually end up wiping it out. Although I'm not seeing that with X-Box (yet) or that Ultimate TV thingamabob. Maybe the tides are naturally turning anyways.
    • Re:Umm... (Score:5, Informative)

      by satch89450 ( 186046 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @01:22PM (#2715684) Homepage
      Almost everyone I know has taken sides on the Microsoft issue. I hope what you say is true.

      One of the advantages of having knocked around the industry as a white-hat hacker, writer, developer, and at one point as a QA guy is that I got to meet, work, and play around a lot of Microsoft people. My story about the Microsoft representative to TIA is typical of many of my interactions with Microsoft people. If you can get their attention and their respect, they treat you properly and with respect. Good things come from that.

      Case in point: The architects of NT were adament that no device driver should mess with floating-point registers in the IA-32 architecture. If a driver needed floating point registers, the NT architects provided a slow routine to save the registers and another slow routine to load them back up. (I don't know any more details than that -- this was an API description.) In a soft modem product, the slowness of the routine (opposed to saving the floating-point context to a fixed location directly) is a killer. The NT guys had to be convinced that soft modems needed to be an exception to the floating-point rule, the same as games had been granted exception status.

      I want to stress this: at no time did the NT architects say "We are Microsoft, you do what we tell you to." Instead, they (and we) argued exclusively the technical merits of our positions.

      I respect that kind of alligence to keeping it technical.

      • Re:Umm... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by sphealey ( 2855 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @01:29PM (#2715730)
        If you can get their attention and their respect, they treat you properly and with respect.
        Two problems:
        First, it isn't necessarily my responsibility as a consumer/customer/citizen to "get [Microsoft's] respect". It is
        Microsoft's responsibility to obey the law. For the life of me, I don't understand why Judge Jackson didn't file contempt charges after the doctored vidoetape episode.

        Second, I think you will find that the people at Microsoft whose respect you can earn are technical people. It wasn't the IE programming group that made the decision to "cut off Netscape's air supply": it was marketing and senior management. I believe that in the last 15 years many, many ISV's have made the fatal mistake of working with or negotiating with the technical side of M$, only to be crushed like bugs by the executive side.

        Something to think about, eh?

        sPh

      • I want to stress this: at no time did the NT architects say "We are Microsoft, you do what we tell you to." Instead, they (and we) argued exclusively the technical merits of our positions.
        I'd have to agree with you, that the SEs over at MS probably wouldn't say such a thing. That sort of hubris is strictly the realm of those in charge (Ballmer, Gates, et. al.) and that is what makes MS so dangerous.

        They (Ballmer, Gates, & co.) are bullies (geek bullies! Imagine that!) and are in need of a good spanking

        -- Shamus

        Bleah!
        • no, what makes microsoft so dangerous is that the SEs at microsoft accept whatever they are told.

          Hitler wasn't dangerous, it was those that followed him.
      • Re:Umm... (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Jeff Probst ( 459812 )
        on trolltalk the other day there was talk about how to get to the 50cap in the minimum number of posts.

        posting comments on your own interview is such a brilliant way to karma whore. i see that you have posted 10 comments to your own interview. if you post just three more responses you should get you to the 50 cap with posts to this article alone, if you havent already.

        hats off to you, my friend. bravo!
        • by satch89450 ( 186046 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @06:36PM (#2717273) Homepage

          posting comments on your own interview is such a brilliant way to karma whore. i see that you have posted 10 comments to your own interview. if you post just three more responses you should get you to the 50 cap with posts to this article alone, if you havent already.

          What are you talking about? My karma has been stuck at 50 for a long, long time, because I almost never post any comment that results in a mod-down. (OK, children moderators, here is your chance to try to blast my karma if you are so inclined.) Before this article, I have articles which got +5 Interesting -- check my user page.

          I'm posting because people are asking good questions that deserve answers. Period.

          Satch, otherwise known as satch89450

          (Posted without the +1 bonus because I'm no fool.)

  • by sphealey ( 2855 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @12:33PM (#2715452)
    The events and findings of the second MS anti-trust trial were more or less brought about by Microsoft's willful failure to follow either the letter or the intent of the first consent decree. Given that history, why would anyone expect that any level of "oversight" would prevent Microsoft from acting exactly as it did before?

    sPh

    • What were the provisions of the first consent decree?
    • by satch89450 ( 186046 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @01:43PM (#2715791) Homepage
      The events and findings of the second MS anti-trust trial were more or less brought about by Microsoft's willful failure to follow either the letter or the intent of the first consent decree. Given that history, why would anyone expect that any level of "oversight" would prevent Microsoft from acting exactly as it did before?

      See the answer to Question 6.

      In the first decree, there was no method to collect information cheaply about minor infractions, and no process to deal with the minor infractions. The Department of Justice didn't have the staff in place to deal with minor complaints -- do you think that including a technical oversight committee in the Proposed Final Judgement indicates that the DoJ realizes this?

      Think, man, THINK. Every six months like clockword the Plaintiffs will get a report about every little complaint against Microsoft that comes over the threshold of the TC's door. Every six months the Plaintiffs will have to decide whether the weight of the infractions in the report merit bringing the stack to the attention of the Court. Every six months Microsoft faces at best a possible contempt citation for its infractions (if any), with the real possibility in the face of poor performance the extension of the term of the Final Judgement because of bad behavior, and at worst a reopening of the remedy portion of the anti-trust trial because the "Final Judgement isn't working."

      We treat murderers on probation less harshly.

      • by sphealey ( 2855 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @02:08PM (#2715921)
        Think, man, THINK. Every six months like clockword the Plaintiffs will get a report about every little complaint against Microsoft that comes over the threshold of the TC's door.
        I do my best to think, handicapped as I am! ;-)

        But for your part, please think about this: Microsoft managed to outmaneuver David Boise, Joel Klein, Judge Jackson, and the best legal support from Netscape, AOL, and Sun. They had a rock-solid case, won it at both the trial and appeals court levels, and Microsoft still managed to outflank them. And you promise to do better?

        sPh

        • No, they didn't outwit Boise and Klein.

          Those two caught MS. It was the DoJ who pulled a bait and switch on the states...

          A lot of people say this was because Bush won the Presidental election. I don't know for certain...

          But it was the DoJ who backed off. Check your facts.
        • That you list Jackson among the people MS "defeated" is pretty telling. Jackson wasn't supposed to be the adversary, but rather an impartial... well, Judge, duh.

          But anyway: MS didn't win, although the fact that they're not getting punished as harshly as some people expected makes it seem as if they did. They now have to deal with a 3 person panel (of whom, Mr. Satchell may be one) overseeing a whole assload of technical decisions. If the panel decides that MS is acting outside the bounds of the settlement, they can always begin a procedure to find MS in contempt of court. That could mean anything from slap on the wrist, to god only knows what, given MS's previous record of failing to uphold settlements and consent decrees.
          • That you list Jackson among the people MS "defeated" is pretty telling. Jackson wasn't supposed to be the adversary, but rather an impartial... well, Judge, duh
            I understand your point, and I don't disagree with it, but dealing with it in detail in my first post would have required adding 1000 more words, which I didn't/don't have time to do.

            But briefly, yes, a judge is supposed to be impartial. However, when a judge sits at his bench and takes, with a straight face (more or less), the amount of poop that Microsoft threw at him (faked videotape, anyone?), and nonetheless manages to deliver a pretty fair, technically and economically astute decison, and THEN has that decision gutted at the Appeals Court level (plus getting a spanking for behaviour no different than you see from Posner, O'Conner, or other judges) for what are pretty clearly politically motivated reasons, then

            yes, I would say he was "defeated".

            Just my opinion.

            sPh

      • Every six months Microsoft faces at best a possible contempt citation for its infractions

        Unless they haul Gates, Balmer and the rest of the upper management off to jail for contempt, this "penalty" seems pretty weak.

        with the real possibility in the face of poor performance the extension of the term of the Final Judgement because of bad behavior,

        But from an m$ perspective, the whole settlement seems like a pretty schweet deal, all things considered. Extending it for another year or three because they do not adhere to the spirit or intent of the agreement is hardly going to deter future monopoly abuses.

        We treat murderers on probation less harshly.

        Personally, when I read some articles on the terms of settlement, and Balmer publicly states that this is an honourable compromise and they will stick to their part of the bargain, I figured that the non-m$ camp had been suckered. If Bill Gates was screaming that the government had raped his company, then I would tend to agree that justice had been served.
      • Reopening of the remedy portion? Umm, there was a reason this wasn't done when the previous Final Judgement was found to be not working, no? And it lead us right back here...

        I just wonder how far they'll push you before you say "Ok, we're making the *complete* source code to Windows and Office public domain now!" And what the odds are that they see you would do it, and back down before then.
      • But we treat them far more harshly before putting them on probation. Which, of course, is the basic problem with the consent decree. There's nothing painful to MS in the decree (big surprise, given that they wrote most of it).
      • Your answer still lacks teeth. M$ has been found in contempt. The petty details of their behavior has been published for all to read, if simply using the new M$ OS is not evidence enough. Those petty details are less damning than the proved intent and the whole result.

        This is neither punishment nor assurance of competition. Murderers go to jail. M$ is going on desktops everywhere with freaking robot code to make their OS tricks an instantaneous game. What makes me think that any software vendor has the slightest chance of convincing Dell, for example, that they have nothing to fear from M$? How will hardware makers be reasured that it's now OK to release driver specs or even include drivers and source for non M$ OS? What software vendor will feel safe offering ports to other OS? M$ has told you how they are going to break computers and therby rule the drivers and software on their platform to the detriment of all other platforms. You could write a book based on their intentions alone. How many six month reports will it take for a remedy to open? The extentions of the terms of the "Final Judgement" can go on forever doing the same nothing.

        Please, say it aint so.

        • by satch89450 ( 186046 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @04:04PM (#2716489) Homepage

          This is neither punishment nor assurance of competition. I assume you are referring to the PFJ. The Department of Justice and the Plaintiff States have a real huge problem: their proposed remedy has to satisfy both the letter of the law and the perception of the Judge of the "public interest."

          The people who continue to say "Break it up! Break it up!" fail to see the consequences of that kind of action. See my answer to Question 7 about ripple effects -- I talk about where we would be going if Microsoft were to be splintered. Once you have the "public interest" in mind, then you need to enhance your calm regarding revenge and retribution.

          That aside, you bring up very good points: How do we convince Dell, Compaq, Gateway, and others that the playing field is indeed level? Make public the rules of the game, and then the industry will put forth a stalking horse to test it. (They always do.) Then we'll see.

          How many six-month reports will it take to reopen the remedy phase? None, I hope. My expectation is that Microsoft will indeed toe the line, especially as they will now have a person whose sole job is to ensure they do from the inside. Three people will be on the outside watching for fouls. And the rest of the industry doesn't have to make big shifts to accomodate all this. Stable, we hope.

          How will hardware makers be reasured that it's now OK to release driver specs or even include drivers and source for non M$ OS? I'm sorry, I've not seen anything that suggests that any hardware company was pressured or convinced by Microsoft to withhold information or to no release drivers for other platforms. On the kernel hacker's mailing list, every time someone talks about a company not willing to release information, it's the company that has made the decision, not Microsoft. Some of the companies who do write drivers for Linux make it clear they won't release source because they have decided to keep the API to their software secret -- their choice. I am still miffed that Adaptec won't release hardware API information for their RAID controllers, because I have one and prefer the security model in Linux for my file servers.

          What company has said "We won't release our API because Microsoft told us not to"?

          • The people who continue to say "Break it up! Break it up!" fail to see the consequences of that kind of action.

            I don't know about that. To some extent, it seems to be a choice of, "inject turbulence into the IT industry now to aid its long-term viability," or "just let it be slowly crushed."

            Also, it's not like a breakup would happen all in one morning. I imagine it would be slow and incremental. Something like, "By 2004, the Office Applications (See list) products will be spun out into a separate company. By 2003, Microsoft will spin off MSN." Etc. Companies spin off products and divisions all the time. How would a breakup be much different, other than it has the oversight of the court?
  • MS was really stagnant during the MS-DOS days, and would probably have been supplanted if not for the per-processor licenses.

    To really and truly 'deprive them of the fruits of their anticompetitive behavior' would mean pushing them out of existence - something few would want, but it leaves that part of the judgement utterly subjective - unfortunately.
  • Hmmm... (Score:5, Funny)

    by dasmegabyte ( 267018 ) <das@OHNOWHATSTHISdasmegabyte.org> on Monday December 17, 2001 @01:25PM (#2715695) Homepage Journal
    The best part was the part at the end when he lists the OSs and machines and network systems in his office. Is it just me, or do these interviews with "famous" techies always seem to end with one of these run downs. In a way, it's a bit like the end of the center spread in Playboy:

    Stephen Satchell (Virgo)
    Turn ons: MacOS, Linux, open solutions, long walks on the beach.
    Turn offs: Monopolies, broken PDAs, Winmodems.
  • by benedict ( 9959 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @01:39PM (#2715776)
    I want to hear about the time(s) you turned down sex for ethical reasons.

    I mean, it must have been subtler than say, Hewlett-Packard sending a woman (or man or sheep or whatever) to your house wrapped in a bow and carrying a printer. How did it happen?
    • by satch89450 ( 186046 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @02:40PM (#2716049) Homepage

      I want to hear about the time(s) you turned down sex for ethical reasons.

      Well, let's see. There was the gift certificate for The Mustang Ranch that was tucked neatly into a press kit that was mailed to my home in Nevada. If I had known that the Ranch would be first run by the IRS and then closed when the government was hauled into court for running a brothal, I would have saved the thing -- it would be worth REAL money today. The press person who did this was a fool -- the Bunny Ranch is a much closer drive for me. People really should do their research.

      The art of bribing people who you hope can help you is a delicate dance, and requires that the receiving party be equally as willing to accept the bribe as much as the offering party is to give it. Simply by ignoring the nuances and double entendres it's very easy to avoid impropriety.

      I made the decision to avoid impropriety -- I didn't need the trouble, and I didn't need the hassle. I had enough trouble getting writing assignments to add ethics violations to the hurdles.

      • ...wins my vote!
      • Now that you mention it, I recall that a small-time
        government official of my acquaintance has described
        refusing bribes just by playing dumb.

        Thanks for answering my question.

        I'm off to look up the Mustang Ranch, that sounds
        like an awfully interesting story in and of itself.
        • Back in the Vietnam war-like-thingie days I was eligible for the draft, and (after a LONG sequence of events I won't go into here - involving a congressional inquiry B-) ) I ended up in a private doctor's office getting an allergy test to confirm my documented infirmities.

          The allergist appeared to be delicately fishing for a bribe. I stood there with my arm swolen up from the test injection and had a nice rambling conversation with him, pretending throughout to be totally ignorant of what he was doing - right through the pregnant pause before he told the officer on the other end of the phone that I was unfit for service.

          (Due to allergies, or too stupid to recognize a fish for a bribe? Can't have THAT in the army! B-) )

          Of course it helps that I had objective evidence that I had the allergies - including a currently-swolen patch test. So if he failed to do his job correctly I could have gotten him into trouble too. And you never know if that congressional inquiry might be into doctors consulting for the military and taking bribes. B-)
          • A Congressional inquiry, huh? Pretty cool. The same government official I know was also eligible for the draft, but was morally opposed to the war, so he applied for conscientious objector status. That was a whole big deal too, he had to fight all the way up to the Supreme Court before he was recognized as a conscientious objector.
  • The effective sales life of a version of commercial software is now one year. The time required to get redress for grievance via lawsuit is around four years. Four years is more than enough time for a commercial software company to crash, die, crumble to dust, and blow away so that there is absolutely nothing left of it. Even if the software company wins its case against Microsoft, it's a Pyrrhic victory because the company will have lost where it counts most, in the marketplace.

    The key to making the Final Judgment work to the short window dictated by the commercial-software market cycle is that the TC and Microsoft's Judgement Compliance Officer can solve a problem informally, rather than the complaining party and Microsoft taking years to build and litigate a case. It costs everyone less money, too.


    Taking your word for it on life/litigation cycle time.
    I suppose the one year life cycle is for potential competitors.
    'Doze, itself, is converging on that, but a buggy release won't derail Redmond.
    In the second quoted paragraph, though, you appear to believe that short-term cost savings can moderate Redmond's behavior.
    Pockets don't get much deeper than Mr. Softy's.
    Is the final tab of the whole DOJ fracas into nine figures yet?
    Listening to Bill Gates on fair competition is like listening to Bill Clinton on marital fidelity.
  • I like the fact... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mx90 ( 203711 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @02:00PM (#2715879)
    that not only does this guy respond (well) to our Slashdot questions, but he responds to our responses to his responses. Gets my vote. :)
  • by lynx_user_abroad ( 323975 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @02:43PM (#2716065) Homepage Journal
    Integrating everything together reduces the technical support headache for Microsoft. If it reduces the time for a tech support call, that's money saved, either for Microsoft for warranty support or the user if he or she is buying by-the-incident support services, or for the IT department if it provides its own support. Fewer variables.

    Either he doesn't get it, or I dont. If it's me, somebody please set me straight.
    The vast majority of Windows licenses are sold to OEM's. The OEM versions of Windows defer all warranty support back onto the OEM. It costs Microsoft nothing either way in this respect.
    Retail sales of Windows are warranted by Microsoft, but this is a minor component. An argument could be made that better software reduces their tech-support exposure during the warranted period (for some fraction of their customers who would actually ask for tech support), but since it would also sabotage future sales after the warranted period (for the much larger fraction of their customers whom they can be expecting to upgrade) I'd argue this still weighs in favor of releasing poor quality software.
    Enterprise sales (to corporate IT departments) actually benefit from "technical support headaches". As anyone who's spent much time in a corporate tech-support setting will tell you, buggy software:

    Increases job security for everyone in the support organization, by maintaining visibility (think about the Maytag repairman) and corporate relevance.

    Helps the CTO build a large empire, and increase his power base and scope of decision making authority

    Helps individual techs justify additional certifications and training expense (resume' building)

    And trying to characterize Microsoft's per-incident support charges as some sort of loss-leader just flies over my head. Microsoft is under no obligation to offer this service; they can discontinue it at any time. The fact that they do not is proof of the aggregate value of this service to their organization.
    A good designer interested in "fewer variables" will design the machine as a set of discrete components, where problems can be quickly isolated to the unit level, where individual units can be tested in isolation, and replaced with new identical units (to isolate problems at the unit level) or with functionally equivalent units of unique construction and manufacture (to isolate common-mode problems affecting all units of a given design.)
    Such a design would, for example, allow a tech to rapidly and cleanly rip out IE and replace it with Netscape to isolate browser problems, like an auto mechanic replacing the master cylinder to diagnose a problem in the brakes.
    This is precisely opposite to what Microsoft was accused of doing, and was the focus of the anti-compettitive behavior from the original trial.

    Methinks he needs to adjust his views. Microsoft, because they are a profit-oriented corporation, and because of their monopoly status, has no reason to make the software more secure, easier to troubleshoot, easier to maintain, easier to integrate with other products, or easier to replace with a competitors products.
    Farming is their optimal strategy: as the incumbent, and posessor of the monopoly, they can define what computing is and garner the profits from known and conquored business much more effectively than they can compete with the Hunters trying to redefine the territory.
    Compare this to the goals of free software and open source advocates:

    functions exposed (source available)

    secure against unauthorized functions (security oriented)

    small, tight, clean tools (function specific)

    seemless integration between tools (pipes)
    which have only been made possible because its development was undertaken outside of the profit-oriented development marketplace.

    What monopoly has a balance-sheet incentive for producing a quality product? And what for-profit corporation has any incentive which is not balance-sheet oriented?

    If you want my support as the only person not selected, in part, by Microsoft, and representing computer users in this bargain, you'll need to demonstrate a solid understanding of this reality.

  • by masters ( 319891 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @03:11PM (#2716217) Homepage
    Is the oversight committee is a waste of Satchell time? It does nothing to change the status quo of the Microsoft monopoly.

    <wishful thinking> Put him in-charge of a government program like quote below from Nathan Newman's [prospect.org]

    While such government restrictions are likely necessary, none of them speaks to the issue of creating a strong viable alternative to Microsoft. The federal government already spends billions of dollars on software research, purchases, and implementation. If it consolidated those resources in support of open-source solutions, it would not only expand many of the clear advantages that open-source software delivers, but it would also simultaneously undermine the Microsoft monopoly. If the government revived its collaboration with top programming talent to define the best standards and used its purchasing power to require that those standards be met in government contracts, this would go a long way toward challenging the Microsoft monopoly and preventing fragmentation of standards throughout the open-source universe.

    </wishful thinking>

  • by JMZero ( 449047 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @03:39PM (#2716358) Homepage
    So many oversights that they need a whole committee to manage them.

    I wonder if they're trying to eliminate them or just manage them?
  • He wants the perks that go with it.

    Congressmen don't care about their salaries (though they have no trouble raising them) -- it is a pittance compared to the bribery received from lobbyists of all sorts. Roman senatorial hopeful used to mortgage their entire estates and sell franchise rights to wealthy investors to finance their elections, and it wasn't because they (or their backers) had strong moral opinions they wanted voiced.

    He's following the money, and quick to deny it.
    • Yeah, he sure is following the money, because there are no "ethical" people anymore. Every single person in the world is out for their piece of the pie and nothing else.

      EOS
      "end of sarcasm"

      Has it occured to you that sometimes people do tell the truth and that on a rare occasion, a person will attempt to do something for the betterment of society?

      At any rate, I challenge you to at least provide some circumstantial evidence to back up your claims.
    • He wants the perks that go with it. Congressmen don't care about their salaries (though they have no trouble raising them) -- it is a pittance compared to the bribery received from lobbyists of all sorts. Roman senatorial hopeful used to mortgage their entire estates and sell franchise rights to wealthy investors to finance their elections, and it wasn't because they (or their backers) had strong moral opinions they wanted voiced. He's following the money, and quick to deny it.

      HOO HOO HA HA HEE HEE HEA HEA HOOOOOO!

      Thank you for the BEST LAUGH I'VE HAD IN HOURS. If I had moderator points, I'd award as many "+1 Funny" as I could to your post. Thank you, thank you.

      Oh, I grant you there are cases of people like building inspectors who have been successfully bribed, but the take is nowhere near enough to justify the heat and hassle once the bribe is discovered. When you really, really look at the job description for the TC, there is very little difference between the TC member and the building inspector. All it takes is for another building inspector to say "there is no way a competent BI would miss all this crap" to send the corrupt one to jail. Read about how a cabinet official was nailed, and the briber set free. [usc.edu] No thank you.

      No, if I wanted to follow the money, I would try to get onto a rules-making body. There, you can accept all the bribes you want and it's almost impossible to convict you for it. Unlike people who have to follow the rules, there is no way the people who make the rules can be found to "break the rules" unless they are very, very stupid. (Or unlucky.)

      You allude to this in your supporting text, by pointing out the interests of the rulemakers (Congressmen and Roman senatorial hopefuls). Now make your argument by pointing to the quartermasters who became multimillionares by accepting bribes for generators, or policemen who retired from the force and started living on the rich side of town from the bribes they received on the job for looking the other way.

      Follow the money, indeed!

  • Unlike your federal elected representatives, the Department of Justice is required by law to respond to your comments, and the judge has to take that response into account.

    Actually, they are not required to respond to or even listen to citizens comments, merely provice a forum (electronic) for them to be voiced. They don't even have to recycle the envelopes.

  • Ok, if they're not going to be broken up to restore a competitive market (i.e., the OS company competing against other OS's on it's own merit w/o applications like Office automatically dragging it in; or v-v, Office competing for other OS share w/o the 90% OS market dragging IT in) then, sure, like other natural monopolies (in this instance a monopoly for integration purposes) regulate them, just like the electric, gas, cable, phone, etc companies. For chrissake, bring the cost of software down - Staroffice costs $50 for a boxed version, MSOffice is $500 and isn't all that much better. I don't mind them making a profit, I just don't want to send several hundred Msfties on an all expense paid carribean cruise evertime we add a couple of wrkstations. Look at how competition in the hardware arena benefits consumers with companies forced for be effecient to stay alive, giving us better and better products at affordable prices, then look at how utterly different the history of software prices is, going up & up with 'features' you may or may not want, and you either pay it or do without or resort to piracy (and I don't mean the olde million dollar mainframe software market).

    Say you're a small biz still happily making $$$ with some old Access 2.0 databases and want to add 10 wrkstations - Now you have to pay upwards of $300 each for Access 2002. It just as if the electric utility keeps coming up with new improved electricity and your bill keeps going up and you have no choice, you can't switch to another power company, and the open source alternative of building a generator in your back yard doesn't appeal to all users - w/o a consumer advocate/regulator we're just screwed, and Msft gets their billions and billions.
  • by iabervon ( 1971 ) on Monday December 17, 2001 @05:00PM (#2716791) Homepage Journal
    It seems to me that a number of MicroSoft's dirty tricks involve going to the legal system when they want to hurt someone, rather than doing something that hurts the victem and then resisting legal action.

    If the TC can take complaints of the form "MS, via the BSA, is threatening to sue me for doing something I should be allowed to", and prevent MS et al from filing suit, the TC would have a major stick to use against MS. MS, being an information company, needs legal means for controlling the use of their products. If they had to ask the TC if they wanted to make anyone pay for anything, and the TC was looking unfavorably on their practices, they'd be sunk.

    If an OEM knew that, if MicroSoft cancelled their special license, the TC would reject any MS copyright infringement suits against the OEM or their customers, they'd be able to make Windows optional with complete impunity.

    If the TC found that a patent was anti-competitive, they'd be able to prevent MS from ever enforcing it.

    Of course, this depends on the courts agreeing to send MS suits to the TC before granting injunctions or anything. If the point of the TC is to avoid slow and expensive lawsuits, it is hardly useful if it doesn't stop MS from suing people (and make MS threats useless).
  • My comment didn't make it to the top, but I'm hoping satch will notice it here:

    Who else do you think should be on the committee?

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