in the new show FMC the brits often lose and find it all rather funny and are very self-deprecating. but the americans sometimes cry!
As an American, I feel a strange sort of pride at this. Yeah, it's just a TV show, but dammit, I've always felt that if you're going to commit to something, then commit yourself to doing the best job you can.
Being a Brit, I see that being competitive is far more prevelant in the USA than here in just about every single thing, it seems more of a way of life in the states and drummed into you at an early age. E.g. Fear Factor, the British version and Amerian version are so far removed, the American version without fail the contestants are all "Yeah I am the best, no one can beat me..." yada yada I laugh so hard when they fail miserably, theres being competitive, and theres arrogance and inflated egos that so often goes with it. Then again I think that sometimes the British lack the drive and motivation that comes with being competitive which is a bad thing. On the whole though, I think the best is somewhere between the US and the UK attitudes, UK goes not far enough, US, to far.
It's commonly know as 'the Dump' or 'the Tip' for general rubbish, and a 'Scrapyard' or 'Wreckers Yard' for more equipment-oriented stuff. So maybe the show here would "Wreckers Wars"?:)
Well, keep in mind that Americans who strive to be on tv are kind of a self-selected group to begin with, off the bat more likely to be chest-thumping and with high-self-esteem-issues. I certainly have a big does of self-deprecating humor durintg competitions (and come watch me play darts in my dart league and you'll see that that humbleness is richly justified...) but maybe that's more spread out for the UK population.
It's not so much a need to be more of a loser, just to feel more like one...or at least, have a realistic appraisal of your own abilities, and the fact that in a world of over 6 billion people, it's unlikely that you're the very best at any thing.
What you fail to realize about shows such as Fear Factor is that the people that are on the show are there *because* of their arrogance. The producers know that the people on those shows are going, for the most part, to make complete fools of themselvs. This is what the majority of the American public want to see on TV (I know I'm one of 'em. Seeing these idiots makes me feel better about myself sometimes).
Keep that in mind next time you see one of these stupid 'reality TV' shows.. =]
I think the best is somewhere between the US and the UK attitudes, UK goes not far enough, US, to far.
[puts on the baggy green]
Now that would be an aussie mate!
Combine the patriotism of the USians (I got told off for calling you americans;) ) with the tempered sensibility of the UK, shake it around and compress into a nation of 20 million. ta da!
I can see it now - Junkyard Wars wouldn't work in Australia unless the losers had to buy the beer for the winners !!
Uh, isn't this just a good example of the western fixation on being #1 (not #2, #3, or even thinking about the journey itself as being rewarding?)
And please, I'm on western soil, so I'm all my rocks are staying inside our glass house here.:)
Thats the way I see it; Western culture lives by the 'ends justify the means' mantra, where as other cultures seem realize that investing too much in realizing ones goals just means you cant have any fun or learn much from the journey. Or worse yet, this attitude encourages attempting to find loopholes in the rules of the journey for the end's sake.. I think alot of corperate America's 'growth at all costs' fiasco of recent years was a good example of this.
One last thing. If it means that much to them when they lose, do they really wish that kind of emotional pain on other people.. and what does that say about them?;)
in the new show FMC the brits often lose and find it all rather funny and are very self-deprecating. but the americans sometimes cry!
As an American, I feel a strange sort of pride at this. Yeah, it's just a TV show, but dammit, I've always felt that if you're going to commit to something, then commit yourself to doing the best job you can.
I am a Canadian myself (and proud of it) but in all seriousness it is easy to see that this is exactly why the USA is the most powerfull nation in the world today... think about it... its not just in TV that americans are this way...
No, that's not the reason. Mainly it's just because it's one country covering a lot of territory with pretty decent natural resources.
Being one big country means it has a huge internal market- this means that goods can be made cheaper just because of economies of scale; that in turn means it competed well abroad. Of course that meant that more money came into the country, and that pushes up the standard of living, until the goods no longer compete so well... and it balances out, but that's still where the USA is now.
Being fairly well off helped during the second world war; America had lots of weapons, and so it was able to cut 'deals' with Britain- loans that aren't yet repaid. America left WWII as the major player on the world stage.
It's unclear how or whether attitude helped with these things.
The British Empire was built on trade initially; but once we had an empire, then it was built on the resources of that empire- it tended to act much like an internal market.
Japan is another story. The Japanese manipulated their economy- for example they introduced regulations that pushed up the price of land. This mean that in order to be able to afford to live anywhere the Japanese had to work like maniacs. This in turn meant that the per capita productivity was really good, which in turn lead to Japan being rich. Of course the Japanese were living in quite small living quarters... And of course the crash occured when this system fell apart is a sight to behold.
You're right. I mean, look at the other major industrial powers in the world today. I always boggle at exactly how much territory and resources Japan has... er... maybe Taiwan... no... England?
Oh... hold on... that's not true at all.
Yes, natural resources and territory help. But tell that to Russia or China. They have as just as many natural resources and more land area. But the governing bodies have totally failed to utilize it... or the individuals have. Or both. Probably both.
I'm not trying to go "hip hip hooray" here for the US, certainly there are things that could be better managed (of course, a lot of those things that the US gets poked about - like environmental waste - are actually managed even more poorly in Russia and China), but the whole Protestant work ethic and "can do" attitude has certainly been a key component in where the US has ended up since the early 1900s (before which the US was a 2nd tier country at best - something most US history books don't really bother noting).
and so it was able to cut 'deals' with Britain- loans that aren't yet repaid
Shall we start the litany of loans that the US has made to virtually every European government that have never been repaid? No... I don't think you want to go down that route.
Frankly, Russia (and/or USSR - take your pick) and China are better indicators of how much national attitude and direction matter compared to resources and territory. If you don't have the desire/incentive to do better then you won't, and no amount of riches can help that.
Yes, well Russia has been communist for quite a while- it is a very inefficient system; and their land is nothing like as good as American land; to climb out of an agricultural society, you need the farming to be good enough that you have spare people.
China, ever since about 12th century, it has employed an isolationist policy. That means that it doesn't get the influx of ideas from the other countries that allow a country to improve. America, Britain, Japan and Europe in general have been passing the ideas around with abandon- and some of these ideas stick and make lots of money.
America didn't leave WW2 as the major player on the world stage, they entered it that way. The US accounted for 51% of the world's industrial capacity during that time, which is what makes Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor so crazy. They thought a nation that could output a battleship a day was going to curl up with their tails between their legs because the lost about a third of their fleet. Post WW2 our economic dominance of the world swifty declined as we rebuilt Japan and German in our image and allowed them to become much larger players then they had been before, and it bought us 50 years of peace which may be the best use of capital ever. Today our internal economy keeps the standard of living high but we live well mostly because we are raising the average stanard of living across the globe. China is the new center of technology development and will be one of the larger industrial countries if they want to be. This will raise the standard of living in China, but the lowered cost of goods will unsure that at least a few more generations of Americans will have a growth in GDP and standards of living. Natural resources have almost nothing to do with America's sucess today, with the possible exception of crude oil.
Incidentally, there is some evidence that, for most, of the standard of living in the USA is no higher than, say, Sweden. The number of people with obscene amounts of money skew the statistics. CEOs have been getting ~1000x the salary of the lowest in the company- although it may be dropping slightly now.
Uh, dude, the US has the richest poor people in the world. How much do you think a couple of hundred CEOs is going to matter compared to 150 million adults?
And that's just income. Take a look at the assets of the poor sometime. I'm too lazy to find the reference, so ignore it if you want, but I recall reading that around 40% of the people below the poverty line own their own home. Startling, isn't it?
Ah, what the hell. Here's a reference [ncpa.org]...
Check it...
53 percent of poor households have air conditioning;
91 percent own a color TV and 29 percent own two or more color TVs;
64 percent own a car and 14 percent own two or more cars;
56 percent own a microwave oven; and
40 percent own their home, with 71,000 owning homes worth more than $300,000.
There's also some evidence which indicates that the highest paid Americans are debating whether or not to buy sweden, so they can turn it into a Planet Hollywood.
Damn, and here's me thinking that it had more to do with the fact that the US is pissing away about 50%(!!!) fof it's national budget on the military.
I hate to ruin a perfectly good point made with triple exclamation marks by introducing pesky facts, but the military budget is only $336 billion out of $2,052 billion [gpo.gov], or 16.4%. If you want to find the waste in federal government, look at social programs, not the military.
I don't think she meant that the Brits don't try as hard - simply that they can see the funny side when they fail. I'm neither British nor American, but having lived in both countries I find that the Brits' self deprecating humour makes them far more appealing.
I think it is less about being competitive and more about showing your feelings. The brits are notorious for showing as much feelings as a dead trout and the americans are equally notorious for being an over-enthusiastic bragging bunch.
OK, all of you have valid points and I'd liek to bring in mine if I may.
I'm a US citizen and I think the reason SOME of us are so confident/arrogant is that we seem to subliminally absorb more talk of our 'greatness' throughout history as a superpower and a free and fair country (now I'm not here to debate whether the US is the perfect Camelot like so many people who just say that and eat steak for dinner watching Fear Factor and I'm not saying that the US is a facists gov't masquerading as a Democracy like so many conspiracy theorists here).
This arrogance (again, of SOME of us) is annoying but calling all 'Americans' arrogant is a generalizations and generalizations usually are filled with trouble even seemingly harmless ones (gee, that Asian kid's sure good at math).
We US citizens, are more isolated from a lot of the world. Over here, going to another state is as easy as for one to go to another country in Europe. We seem therefore more, nationalistic, self-centered, etc.
But most of us are taught one good thing in childhood (usually). I'll never forget one of my 4th or 5th grade teachers telling us that competition is good, that competition built this country (the good along with the bad, but competition is not itself bad). He said that competition is the foundation for capitalism (not is so many words), and that it brings out the best in people.
Of course some people will take this previous remark as 'win at all costs' when one can take it as 'honest competition is noble' (etc), so that will immediately give you a good indication of what type of person you are.
I see nothing wrong in failing and being upset about it, whether you cry or not depends upon your personality and how seriously you take the competition or maybe how important it is to you. Failing miserably is much more worthwhile that never trying at all, IMHO. Regret is a bitch.
But most of us are taught one good thing in childhood (usually). I'll never forget one of my 4th or 5th grade teachers telling us that competition is good, that competition built this country (the good along with the bad, but competition is not itself bad). He said that competition is the foundation for capitalism (not is so many words), and that it brings out the best in people.
While I find your points very interesting and insightful, this one kind of sticks out at me.. You should read the book a href="http://www.curledup.com/sideshow.htm">Sidesh ow by Sheri S. Tepper.. she takes this point of view (and the corresponding one of Diversity) and takes them to their ultimate conclusion.. She provides remarkable insight into modern western civilization (Just like the other books in the series, Grass and Raising the Stones - you don't need to read them to enjoy Sideshow though; although you might get more out of it..)
As an American, I feel a strange sort of pride at this. Yeah, it's just a TV show, but dammit, I've always felt that if you're going to commit to something, then commit yourself to doing the best job you can.
Can someone please forward this concept to Detroit so that our automobile manufacturers know that we pay attention?
U-S-A U-S-A (Score:5, Interesting)
in the new show FMC the brits often lose and find it all rather funny and are very self-deprecating. but the americans sometimes cry!
As an American, I feel a strange sort of pride at this. Yeah, it's just a TV show, but dammit, I've always felt that if you're going to commit to something, then commit yourself to doing the best job you can.
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:1)
I've always felt that if you're going to commit to something, then commit yourself to doing the best job you can.
And then cry when your best isn't good enough?
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:3, Funny)
I am sure the contestants did their very best to cry as effectively as possible.
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:1)
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
No, not in America. Most people here define themselves by their work. It ruins their self-image when they lose. That's why they cry.
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:1)
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:1)
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:1)
Keep that in mind next time you see one of these stupid 'reality TV' shows.. =]
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
being competitive is far more prevelant in the USA than here in just about every single thing
In your FACE!
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:1)
Note: I am not British, I could not care less if Americans are better than British. I am better than the both of them.
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:1)
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2, Insightful)
That person would be called a Canadian!
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:5, Funny)
Hmmm... somewhere between the US and the UK attitudes, eh?
A place like that sounds like paradise.... but then again, I might be a little biased...
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2, Interesting)
That's why the British version is called Scrapheap Challenge and the American version is Junkyard Wars.
"Go on, have a war!" -- Chris Morris
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:1)
[puts on the baggy green]
Now that would be an aussie mate!
Combine the patriotism of the USians (I got told off for calling you americans
I can see it now - Junkyard Wars wouldn't work in Australia unless the losers had to buy the beer for the winners !!
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
And please, I'm on western soil, so I'm all my rocks are staying inside our glass house here.
Thats the way I see it; Western culture lives by the 'ends justify the means' mantra, where as other cultures seem realize that investing too much in realizing ones goals just means you cant have any fun or learn much from the journey. Or worse yet, this attitude encourages attempting to find loopholes in the rules of the journey for the end's sake
One last thing. If it means that much to them when they lose, do they really wish that kind of emotional pain on other people
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:3, Insightful)
As an American, I feel a strange sort of pride at this. Yeah, it's just a TV show, but dammit, I've always felt that if you're going to commit to something, then commit yourself to doing the best job you can.
I am a Canadian myself (and proud of it) but in all seriousness it is easy to see that this is exactly why the USA is the most powerfull nation in the world today... think about it... its not just in TV that americans are this way...
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2, Offtopic)
Being fairly well off helped during the second world war; America had lots of weapons, and so it was able to cut 'deals' with Britain- loans that aren't yet repaid. America left WWII as the major player on the world stage.
It's unclear how or whether attitude helped with these things.
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
Mainly it's just because it's one country covering a lot of territory with pretty decent natural resources.
Certainly natural resources don't hurt, but it's not that big a help. If that were true, South America would rule the world.
On the other hand, the British Empire and Japan have done pretty well with small, relatively resource poor islands.
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
Japan is another story. The Japanese manipulated their economy- for example they introduced regulations that pushed up the price of land. This mean that in order to be able to afford to live anywhere the Japanese had to work like maniacs. This in turn meant that the per capita productivity was really good, which in turn lead to Japan being rich. Of course the Japanese were living in quite small living quarters... And of course the crash occured when this system fell apart is a sight to behold.
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh... hold on... that's not true at all.
Yes, natural resources and territory help. But tell that to Russia or China. They have as just as many natural resources and more land area. But the governing bodies have totally failed to utilize it... or the individuals have. Or both. Probably both.
I'm not trying to go "hip hip hooray" here for the US, certainly there are things that could be better managed (of course, a lot of those things that the US gets poked about - like environmental waste - are actually managed even more poorly in Russia and China), but the whole Protestant work ethic and "can do" attitude has certainly been a key component in where the US has ended up since the early 1900s (before which the US was a 2nd tier country at best - something most US history books don't really bother noting).
and so it was able to cut 'deals' with Britain- loans that aren't yet repaid
Shall we start the litany of loans that the US has made to virtually every European government that have never been repaid? No... I don't think you want to go down that route.
Frankly, Russia (and/or USSR - take your pick) and China are better indicators of how much national attitude and direction matter compared to resources and territory. If you don't have the desire/incentive to do better then you won't, and no amount of riches can help that.
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:3, Insightful)
China, ever since about 12th century, it has employed an isolationist policy. That means that it doesn't get the influx of ideas from the other countries that allow a country to improve. America, Britain, Japan and Europe in general have been passing the ideas around with abandon- and some of these ideas stick and make lots of money.
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
Incidentally, there is some evidence that, for most, of the standard of living in the USA is no higher than, say, Sweden. The number of people with obscene amounts of money skew the statistics. CEOs have been getting ~1000x the salary of the lowest in the company- although it may be dropping slightly now.
Re:U-S-A U-S-A QWZX (Score:1, Interesting)
Uh, dude, the US has the richest poor people in the world. How much do you think a couple of hundred CEOs is going to matter compared to 150 million adults?
And that's just income. Take a look at the assets of the poor sometime. I'm too lazy to find the reference, so ignore it if you want, but I recall reading that around 40% of the people below the poverty line own their own home. Startling, isn't it?
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
Ah, what the hell. Here's a reference [ncpa.org]...
Check it...
53 percent of poor households have air conditioning;
91 percent own a color TV and 29 percent own two or more color TVs;
64 percent own a car and 14 percent own two or more cars;
56 percent own a microwave oven; and
40 percent own their home, with 71,000 owning homes worth more than $300,000.
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
In fact, the AC's point is so interesting, I think I'll make it my new sig.
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
Damn, and here's me thinking that it had more to do with the fact that the US is pissing away about 50%(!!!) fof it's national budget on the military.
I hate to ruin a perfectly good point made with triple exclamation marks by introducing pesky facts, but the military budget is only $336 billion out of $2,052 billion [gpo.gov], or 16.4%. If you want to find the waste in federal government, look at social programs, not the military.
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:1)
Absolutely! God knows, I cry when I don't get modded up to 5...
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:1)
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
my $0.02 (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm a US citizen and I think the reason SOME of us are so confident/arrogant is that we seem to subliminally absorb more talk of our 'greatness' throughout history as a superpower and a free and fair country (now I'm not here to debate whether the US is the perfect Camelot like so many people who just say that and eat steak for dinner watching Fear Factor and I'm not saying that the US is a facists gov't masquerading as a Democracy like so many conspiracy theorists here).
This arrogance (again, of SOME of us) is annoying but calling all 'Americans' arrogant is a generalizations and generalizations usually are filled with trouble even seemingly harmless ones (gee, that Asian kid's sure good at math).
We US citizens, are more isolated from a lot of the world. Over here, going to another state is as easy as for one to go to another country in Europe. We seem therefore more, nationalistic, self-centered, etc.
But most of us are taught one good thing in childhood (usually). I'll never forget one of my 4th or 5th grade teachers telling us that competition is good, that competition built this country (the good along with the bad, but competition is not itself bad). He said that competition is the foundation for capitalism (not is so many words), and that it brings out the best in people.
Of course some people will take this previous remark as 'win at all costs' when one can take it as 'honest competition is noble' (etc), so that will immediately give you a good indication of what type of person you are.
I see nothing wrong in failing and being upset about it, whether you cry or not depends upon your personality and how seriously you take the competition or maybe how important it is to you. Failing miserably is much more worthwhile that never trying at all, IMHO. Regret is a bitch.
Re:my $0.02 (Score:2)
While I find your points very interesting and insightful, this one kind of sticks out at me.. You should read the book a href="http://www.curledup.com/sideshow.htm">Sides
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
Can someone please forward this concept to Detroit so that our automobile manufacturers know that we pay attention?
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:2)
As an American, I feel a strange sort of pride at this.
Wuss...
Re:U-S-A U-S-A (Score:1)