C.S. Lewis and Tolkien (who was also Christian) were good friends, as a little googling would easily show. Tolkien's own work is not without religious subtext -- there are even whole college courses [rutgers.edu] on this.

Ummm... considering Tolkien is one of two people Lewis credits as being critical in his conversion to Christianity, I doubt your wife's information comes from a reliable source.

See Lewis' own book, "Surprised by Joy," if you don't believe me; or look at the entry for 1931 in a brief bio on one of the best-known Lewis sites on the Net: http://cslewis.drzeus.net/bio/outline.html

Actually they were good friends and poked fun at each other writings often.

Gah. Can't. Ignore. Troll. Bait...
You're information is *very* misleading.

The several texts I have read on Tolkien referred to him as a devout Catholic. These texts also claimed that C.S. Lewis (Anglican?) was one of Tolkien's few friends after the war. Tolkien's distaste for Lewis' style was due to Tolkien's strong aversion to subtext. He simply wanted a story to be a story (thus his anger over people's 101 translations of his own novels).

Actually, Tolkien was a Christian [cts.com]. Tolkien and Lewis were friends, although their friendship did become strained later in life. And as far as the loathing goes, if I remember correctly, he gave one unfavorable review to the first book in the Chronicles of Narnia because he thought it was contradictory. I don't think it had anything to do with the Christian subtext. I'd like to see some evidence for it, at least.

To me, it's interesting to see both Christians and atheists "fight over" people like authors. Christians want to claim authors as Christians, and atheists want to claim authors as atheists, both to provide intellectual weight to their side...

With all due respect, I believe that your spouse may be mistaken in her belief about Tolkein's relationship with Lewis.

As I have heard the story, Tolkein and Lewis were friends. Tolkein was apparently instrumental in Lewis' conversion from atheism to Christianity, as well.

It is also my understanding that Tolkein was displeased with the lack of subtlety in Lewis' tale. I believe he expressed concern that the message of Christ was far too obvious in the life of Aslan.

Thanks for reading this comment.

Regards,
Anomaly

My wife and I were discussing this bogus leak of The Two Towers the other day, and I said to her that it was a pity Tolkien was not around to see these great films.

She pointed out that he was a crusty old goat, and particularly loathed C. S. Lewis, the author of the Chronicles of Narnia, for his Christian subtext is those stories.

Where did you get this from? Tolkien and Lewis were friends, and while The Lord of the Rings is not a deliberate Christian work there is subtle Christian themes as Tolkien was a Christian himself. I don't have any sources handy but you should be able to find stuff on the web. Also I remember some of this from the books Christopher Tolkien wrote about his father and his work.

Sadly, your wife is wrong. Tolkien was a rather devout Catholic all of his life. Furthermore, many attribute CS Lewis' christianity to his very strong and long term friendship with Tolkien. If anything, Tolkien was not overly fond of technology, and above all loathed trains... However, in regards to "The Big Question," I felt Larry's answer was well thought out, and struck at the simple heart of having faith in something. If one believes, then one typically recieves benefits from that faith. Be them spiritual, physical, emotional or otherwise, for many, faith is a very real and neccasary part of thier existance. In man's quest for knowledge, things beyond the physical world are not left out...

Try Pie. Try.

Interesting; I understood a different set of facts...

Lewis and Tolkien were friends and members of the Inklings, a literary society at Oxford. Further, Christianity was important to Tolkien and Tolkien played a significant role in Lewis' conversion [cslewis.org]:

1931

Lewis became a Christian: One evening in September, Lewis had a long talk on Christianity with J.R.R. Tolkien (a devout Roman Catholic) and Hugo Dyson. (The summary of that discussion is recounted for Arthur Greeves in They Stand Together.) That evening's discussion was important in bringing about the following day's event that Lewis recorded in Surprised by Joy: "When we [Warnie and Jack] set out [by motorcycle to the Whipsnade Zoo] I did not believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and when we reached the zoo I did."

Though Tolkien did criticize the Narnia stories, I understood it to be for a different reason (from Fact Monster [factmonster.com]):

Initially when Lewis turned to writing children's books, his publisher and some of his friends tried to dissuade him; they thought it would hurt his reputation as writer of serious works. J.R.R. Tolkien in particular criticized Lewis's first Narnia book, The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe [slashdot.org]. He thought that there were too many elements that clashed: a Father Christmas and an evil witch, talking animals and children. Thankfully, Lewis didn't listen to any of them.

I believe it had more to do with the character development and consistency than the Christian subtext

Well, of course this is troll bait. But if you've read this far, you might well want to know about the Christian subtext that Tolkien put into LOTR. If so, look at two recent articles here [touchstonemag.com].

She pointed out that he was a crusty old goat, and particularly loathed C. S. Lewis, the author of the Chronicles of Narnia, for his Christian subtext is those stories.

Since Tolkien converted Lewis to Christianity, it is hardly the Christian subtext he objected to. In fact, he many times claimed, not just a Christian, but a Roman Catholic subtext to his work. This is probably a bit of defensive exaggeration, but there is no doubt that LOTR is a deeply religious work. It is full of the author's struggle to come to terms with the nature of evil and corruption, the response of the ordinary person to evil, and the irreparability of evil acts. There is a great more maturity and depth to the work than superficial critics have perceived.

I think if Tolkien disliked the Narnia books, it because they were long allegories. In allegory, the author has a specific meaning that he wants to reader to come away with -- he writes in a kind of code. Tolkien believed writers should create universes that readers could explore with their imaginations, and perhaps come away with something that is totally new. In other words, works of the imagination should liberate the reader's imagination, not channel it in a single direction. Tolkien is the exemplar of this kind of authorship par excellence, which is why he beloved of so many imaginative readers of every religious stripe.

This does not preclude symbolism. Symbolism is not allegory. Lewis himself was acutely aware of the distinction. In fact in one of his essays he contrasts allegory with symbolism this way: Allegory is a literary device -- a mode of expression. Symbolism is a mode of thinking. Saruman symbolizes the corrupting power of ambition (even for knowledge); Denethor the corrupting power of despair; Boromir the corrupting power of the pursuit of honor.

Tolkien's dislike of allegory is often exaggerated. When he said he "cordially disliked" allegory, I think he meant he saw some use and value in the literary form, but that it was overused and none to skillfully at that. He himeself uses allegory to great effect in short stories like "Leaf by Niggle". However, in a long work like Narnia being repeatedly prodded in a particular direction by the author can become tedious. But what is charming and admirable in small doses can cloy large ones. Someone who can tell an occasional joke well is funny; someone who is a nonstop joke cracker is a bore.

> My wife... pointed out that he was a crusty old goat,
> and particularly loathed C. S. Lewis, the author of the
> Chronicles of Narnia, for his Christian subtext is those
> stories.

tolkien was a devout anglican.

check your facts, guy!

tolkien was anglican, and he was friends with c.s. lewis as a part of the 'oxford inklings' . check it out: http://www.mythsoc.org/inklings.html [mythsoc.org]

j.

As others have pointed out, Tolkein just thought the Narnia books were a little heavy handed. In some of Tolkein's letters, he discusses the elves as unfallen Man and describes Gandalf as a being similar in position and power to an angel. This is subtle and is interesting to know when rereading LOTR.

Actually, Tolkien did not loathe Lewis... he loathed Narnia. :)

Lewis and Tolkien were pretty good friends. They regularly met for readings, evenings at the pub, and long walks through the countryside. See the book "Inklings" (ISBN 0-395-27628-4).

Tolkien really disliked allegory. Lewis's Narnia stories are overtly allegorical to Christianity, so for this and other reasons Tolkien disliked them intesnely. I am oversimplifying things dramatically, of course...

Another source of strife between the two was Lewis's anti-catholic views, which Tolkien found profoundly annoying. However, this annoyance was not quite enough to drive them apart as friends.

(And yes, I know it's off topic. :)

I remember reading somewhere that he didn't like the very christian writings of lewis.... he prefered to have less theme and more plot in his writings. He was a friend of lewis, and christian, but that doesen't mean that he liked the way lewis expressed christianity. maybe i should look this up, as it was a while ago that i read this.. but it might be what the origional poster was refering to or might be what the origional poster misinterpreted.