Larry is correct to point out that anything PHP can do...you can do with perl (mod_perl)...often better, and still keep the language you use for everything else. In this sense the rise of PHP has mystified me.
Why the need for a novel language to do web scripting? The only argument I can see is ease of installation and learning, but those aren't good reasons for serious developers.
Seems to me that currently 38.59% of Apache servers run mod_php and 36.83% run mod_perl. Not only that, but the number of mod_perl server is growing (quickly!) and the number of mod_php is shrinking.
Trends and stats aren't worth the paper they are printed on, but it does help to have something to back you up when you say it.
Seems to me that currently 38.59% of Apache servers run mod_php and 36.83%
run mod_perl. Not only that, but the number of mod_perl server is growing
(quickly!) and the number of mod_php is shrinking.
That does no take into account which ones are web hotels and which ones are servers dedicated to one site or at least only one organisation.
Trends and stats aren't worth the paper they are printed on, but it does
help to have something to back you up when you say it
1) I have looked long and hard for web hosting providers providing mod_perl, and that have reasonable latency and bandwidth to Sweden. For many of my customers I will let my company develop more and more solutions in PHP instead.
2) A discussion on perlmonks showed pretty much who has mod_perl and what strings are attached to that. I't was something along the lines of this one [perlmonks.org], but longer and with more listings,; can't find it right now. An interesting way of getting to use mod_perl in a hosted environment is to have it in a chrooted jail, so everyone gets their own server. I believe you need to throttle the resources usage anyway, and such facilities are on the way as far as I know on FreeBSD. And before you question my "I believe", I'll point out that I am running Zope and Apache in a chrooted jail at imeme [imeme.net], so I do have some experience with it:-)
3. I didn't back up the statement that hosting providers don't offer mod_perl because it's basically common knowledge.
In this sense the rise of PHP has mystified me. Why the need for a novel language to do web scripting
mod_php is installed at most Apache based web hosting services, mod_perl practically never.
You are mixing up cause and effect. What you describe is the effect. And the cause is what was asked for.
It is not that PHP has become widespread because mod_php is installed more often than mod_perl (which is not necessarily true by itself), but mod_php is installed so often, because PHP is so popular. Of course, meanwhile the number of installations help PHP's popularity.
As for the original question, I do not have an answer. Maybe PHP has a lower entry threshold? Maybe it's because it's more similar to C/Java? Probably for some other reason.
Besides, regarding web pages, you can have both, PHP and Perl either as stand-alone (=CGI) or as Apache module.
But mod_php is installed so often, because PHP is so popular
mod_php is installed so often because it is easier and cheaper for ISPs. The problem with mod_perl is that it is too powerfull and it lets programmer to have nearly full control over Apache server. In ISP environment such power is bad thing as it becomes impossible to share one Apache server between several independant hosters. In short to provide mod_perl hosting ISP have to give each its customer dedicated Apache server. Obviously for ISP it means that they spend more time/money on system administration and that resource requirements (mostly RAM) are higher.
But mod_php is installed so often, because PHP is so popular
The above is ripped out of context. Which would be rather obvious, if you had quoted the original (Why did you took the effort to change the case manually and therefore forge it to look like a stand-alone statement?).
mod_php is installed so often because it is easier and cheaper for ISPs. The problem with mod_perl is that it is too powerfull[...] In short to provide mod_perl hosting ISP have to give each its customer dedicated Apache server.
Regardless, if PHP would not be popular, no ISP could satisfy its customers by only installing mod_php. The one goes with the other. In fact, there seems to be no problem with mod_perl: see my sister post [slashdot.org], which I suppose you have seen when you read mine. It looks like either your conclusion is wrong, or the installation base is not bound to ISPs. Whatever.(Take the treatment of stats from my sister post, too.)
I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the best.
-- Oscar Wilde
Good point on PHP (Score:2)
Why the need for a novel language to do web scripting? The only argument I can see is ease of installation and learning, but those aren't good reasons for serious developers.
Re:Good point on PHP (Score:5, Insightful)
In this sense the rise of PHP has mystified me. Why the need for a novel language to do web scripting
mod_php is installed at most Apache based web hosting services, mod_perl practically never.
(The mod_p(erl|hp) makes the scripts run as long running processes instead of short lived processes incurring a lot of overhead).
Besides, there is no standard template language for perl, and that fragments the knowledge in the field in the perl community.
perl and Zope coder
Re:Good point on PHP (Score:1)
everywhere and mod_perl is not? Let's ask securityspace.com:
[securityspace.com]
http://www.securityspace.com/s_survey/data/man.
Seems to me that currently 38.59% of Apache servers run mod_php and 36.83%
run mod_perl. Not only that, but the number of mod_perl server is growing
(quickly!) and the number of mod_php is shrinking.
Trends and stats aren't worth the paper they are printed on, but it does
help to have something to back you up when you say it.
Regards,
{NULE}
Re:Good point on PHP (Score:1)
That does no take into account which ones are web hotels and which ones are servers dedicated to one site or at least only one organisation.
Trends and stats aren't worth the paper they are printed on, but it does help to have something to back you up when you say it
1) I have looked long and hard for web hosting providers providing mod_perl, and that have reasonable latency and bandwidth to Sweden. For many of my customers I will let my company develop more and more solutions in PHP instead.
2) A discussion on perlmonks showed pretty much who has mod_perl and what strings are attached to that. I't was something along the lines of this one [perlmonks.org], but longer and with more listings,; can't find it right now. An interesting way of getting to use mod_perl in a hosted environment is to have it in a chrooted jail, so everyone gets their own server. I believe you need to throttle the resources usage anyway, and such facilities are on the way as far as I know on FreeBSD. And before you question my "I believe", I'll point out that I am running Zope and Apache in a chrooted jail at imeme [imeme.net], so I do have some experience with it:-)
3. I didn't back up the statement that hosting providers don't offer mod_perl because it's basically common knowledge.
cheers,
/jeorgen
Re:Good point on PHP (Score:1)
mod_php is installed at most Apache based web hosting services, mod_perl practically never.
You are mixing up cause and effect. What you describe is the effect. And the cause is what was asked for.
It is not that PHP has become widespread because mod_php is installed more often than mod_perl (which is not necessarily true by itself), but mod_php is installed so often, because PHP is so popular. Of course, meanwhile the number of installations help PHP's popularity.
As for the original question, I do not have an answer. Maybe PHP has a lower entry threshold? Maybe it's because it's more similar to C/Java? Probably for some other reason.
Besides, regarding web pages, you can have both, PHP and Perl either as stand-alone (=CGI) or as Apache module.
Re:Good point on PHP (Score:2)
mod_php is installed so often because it is easier and cheaper for ISPs. The problem with mod_perl is that it is too powerfull and it lets programmer to have nearly full control over Apache server. In ISP environment such power is bad thing as it becomes impossible to share one Apache server between several independant hosters. In short to provide mod_perl hosting ISP have to give each its customer dedicated Apache server. Obviously for ISP it means that they spend more time/money on system administration and that resource requirements (mostly RAM) are higher.
Re:Good point on PHP (Score:1)
The above is ripped out of context. Which would be rather obvious, if you had quoted the original (Why did you took the effort to change the case manually and therefore forge it to look like a stand-alone statement?).
mod_php is installed so often because it is easier and cheaper for ISPs. The problem with mod_perl is that it is too powerfull[...] In short to provide mod_perl hosting ISP have to give each its customer dedicated Apache server.
Regardless, if PHP would not be popular, no ISP could satisfy its customers by only installing mod_php. The one goes with the other. In fact, there seems to be no problem with mod_perl: see my sister post [slashdot.org], which I suppose you have seen when you read mine. It looks like either your conclusion is wrong, or the installation base is not bound to ISPs. Whatever.(Take the treatment of stats from my sister post, too.)