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Comments: 414 +- Interviews: Quiz Microsoft's IE Team Leader on Monday October 23 2006, @11:00AM
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About as timely an interview as you can get: Microsoft released Internet Explorer 7 last week, and today we're gathering questions for IE team general manager Dean Hachamovitch. As usual, please follow Slashdot interview rules when posting or moderating questions. We'll publish Dean's answers verbatim as soon as he replies.
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Technology: IE7 Released and Available for Download 586 comments
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How about this... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:How about this... (Score:5, Interesting)
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CSS (Score:5, Interesting)
Pointless question. (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe that NO browser fully supports CSS. Am I wrong in this assumption? Even if you're asking them to support the standards to the same level as all other browsers the implementation would still be incomplete.
There's a built-in derogatory slant to your question. I believe that IE supports more than 50% of CSS standards, which would mean they went further than half-way. Your choice of words is subtly antagonistic.
It's not a "Have you quit beating your wife" question, but neither is it a suitable one for a serious discussion.
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Re:Pointless question. (Score:5, Insightful)
We have a choice. We can either ask questions that are antagonistic, and hope some of our fellow slashdotters will pat us on the back for MS-bashing, or we can ask questions that have a hope of receiving an enlightening response from the representative of Microsoft.
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Re:CSS (Score:5, Insightful)
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pro Open Source != anti-Microsoft .. (Score:5, Interesting)
Why do you assume that pro Open Source equates with anti-Microsoft
was Re:CSS
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Re:CSS (Score:5, Informative)
It's difficult to speak for everyone, but I can give my own opinion on your question.
I used to like IE5. Whether I disliked Microsoft or not, it was a superior browser in its day. The problem is, that the standards that Microsoft helped create all those years ago are not actually supported by Microsoft today. To use the example I pointed out in my own question, IE's lack of DOM 2 Events support means that there is absolutely no way to write DHTML code that works in both IE and Firefox. Yet, I can easily write code that works in Firefox, Safari, and Opera.
Is there any reason for this dichotomy? Yes and no. Code can be made to work across the major non-IE browsers, because they all provide at least basic support for the W3C standards. IE has its own attachEvent() model that is (obviously) incompatible at a code level, and subtly incompatible at the behavior level. All that microsoft needs to do is to lay a parallel API that supports the W3C standard, and I would be a happy fellow. Yet they haven't done that, won't do that, and I have NO IDEA WHY.
So I continue to write code that works in Firefox, Safari, and Opera, then special patches to make it work in IE. From where I'm sitting, I just want the problem to go away. If Microsoft fixes their browser, then I'll be happy. If Microsoft can't do that, then I will carry the "Down With IE!" torch until their browser is irrelevant in the market. Then I'll also be happy.
Basically, my web browser opinion is not one based on my feelings about Microsoft. I just want a market were I can target a single standard is all. If Microsoft abuses their Web Browser monopoly to stand in the way of that, then it is my duty as a web developer* to help smash that monopoly.
* What happened to the "Developers, developers, developers" jingle, hmm? Are we important, or aren't we?
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Re:CSS (Score:5, Interesting)
Browser comeptition is likely to continue in the marketplace, and as such, the feature sets of browsers will vary in order to appeal to a certain user base. Firefox has become something of the de facto standard for developers, to the extent that many web designers follow the practice of "design with FF in mind" while adding scripting and such to correct for what are commonly referred to as IE tweaks. Given this environment, there are 5 germane questions to ask:
1. Does the Microsoft vision for IE7 place it in comeptition with Firefox as the browser of choice for developers?
2. If so, what feature sets will IE7 have that can compete with Firefox and the open source community, and will those features include increased recognition and compliance with W3C standards?
3. Often times I find myself opening IE for simply Microsoft functions that I otherwise cannot do in my browser of choice. Will cross-based browser support ever occur for common Microsoft functions like Windows and Office updates?
4. As IE7 goes public as an update for those in a post-Windows 2000 environment, are there plans to make this upgrade available for businesses that still rely on those features of the Windows 2000 family of clients and servers?
5. Finally, as some businesses rely on certain functionalities embedded in IE6 that are no longer there in IE7, are there plans to allow for dual instances of IE6 and IE7 in the future to allow for software and program compatability for businesses and their 3rd party vendors?
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Re:CSS (Score:5, Interesting)
Please add this one to the list if the others do not make it. I still do not understand ignoring W2k support with Firefox breathing down Microsoft's neck.
So I can buy new hardware and new OS in order to get anti-phishing and tab support, or I can download Firefox for free???
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Evil Plan? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is this purposeful? If not, what is the reason?
IE's design goals (Score:5, Interesting)
Is it your goal to render a standards compliant website correctly in all cases, or are you just aiming to implement those parts of the spec that are used by the majority of your customers? Naturally, I can understand prioritizing the things that are hitting your customers above those that are rarely used in the real world, but part of the reason the some of them aren't used in the real world is down to lack of browser support. I find it incredibly frustrating that some of my site layouts have to be butchered just to get them to work in the commonly used browsers. If IE fails to render a compliant page according to the spec, can you commit to actively tracking it as a bug with a view to fixing it in a future release of IE, even if it only affects a handful of people?
Re:IE's design goals (Score:5, Funny)
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A question (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:A question (Score:5, Interesting)
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Prediction: (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Prediction: (Score:5, Informative)
- Robin
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Interface (Score:5, Interesting)
Standardized Compliance Tests (Score:5, Interesting)
Best/Future Features (Score:5, Interesting)
My Question (Score:5, Interesting)
Presumably, throughout this development process for IE7, your team has had their nose to the grind-wheel, so to speak. What sort of things did you do to chill out and relax? Were there any in-office perks, like pool tables or whatnot? And were you actually all in the same office, or did some members of the team have to telecommute from far-off lands, like Oregon?
IE7 release time (Score:5, Interesting)
Follow up (Score:5, Interesting)
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DOM 2 Events (Score:5, Interesting)
As someone who's been forced into using runtime patches (example [lachy.id.au]) to increase IE's compatibility with DHTML code, I feel compelled to ask: Why has the IE team ignored this critical standard?
Re:Not just the Events module... (Score:5, Informative)
What I MEANT to write was:
* Tables that are created dynamically will not appear unless elements are added to <tbody> -- in other words, using DOM to write <table><tr><td>content</td><tr><table> does not display anything, even though <tbody> is optional.
* getElementsByTagName('object').item(0).getElement
As far as the navigator.plugins is concerned, it's definitely possible that it's a fragment of the browser wars, but that would be rather weird (except as an intentional attempt to sabotage Netscape Plugins API in order to push ActiveX -- something I find much more plausible than "fixing Netscape-only sites"). An empty nagivator.plugins would be just as easy to detect as one that didn't exist, and if something depended on it being there so that it could find a plugin, the site still wouldn't work in IE.
As an aside, between my last post and now, I ran some JavaScript unit tests from the W3C Compatibility Test Suite.
http://www.w3.org/2003/02/06-dom-support.html [w3.org]
DOM Conformance Test Suites
==========
DOM Core 1
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Internet Explorer 7 (37.95% failure)
Tests: 224
Errors: 4
Failures: 85
Opera 9.02 (11.34% failure)
Tests: 238
Errors: 12
Failures: 27
Firefox 1.5.0.7 (5.88% failure)
Tests: 238
Errors: 15
Failures: 14
==========
DOM Core 2
----------
Internet Explorer 7 (45.45% failure)
Tests: 11
Errors: 2
Failures: 5
Opera 9.02 (36.36% failure)
Tests: 11
Errors: 0
Failures: 4
Firefox 1.5.0.7 (18.18% failure)
Tests: 11
Errors: 0
Failures: 2
==========
DOM HTML 2
----------
Internet Explorer 7 (8.47% failure)
Tests: 685
Errors: 16
Failures: 58
Firefox 1.5.0.7 (1.31% failure)
Tests: 685
Errors: 0
Failures: 9
Opera 9.02
I tried about 20 times to get Opera to
complete this test, and it would constantly
fail to load files and Retry did nothing.
Oh, well. I'd guesstimate the failures are
probably around 2-3%.
I'd say there's a pretty serious fucking problem when nearly 38% of DOM Core 1 functionality is BROKEN.
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Doing WebSite development. (Score:5, Insightful)
Simple questions (Score:5, Interesting)
IE has a dominating command of the market, although Firefox is slowly making inroads, due to innovations such as tabbed browsing that IE has had to incorporate to maintain that command. But where are the IE innovations? Why can't the IE team get ahead of the curve on Firefox? Is there anything you consider an innovation that is unique to IE that would plausibly be something the browser market would have to incorporate to stay competitive?
Why ditch platform conventions (Score:5, Interesting)
There is a workaround [enhanceie.com] that involves editing the registry to get the menu bar in the correct place but why is this not implemented as part of toolbar customisation?
Microsoft jisallim aklak (Score:5, Interesting)
IE7 + Win2k (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not like it'd be any less secure than IE6 on Win2k.
How much of SpyGlass is left in IE7? (Score:5, Interesting)
Now that transparency and CSS is fully implemented (Score:5, Interesting)
My shot (Score:5, Interesting)
IE 8 (Score:5, Interesting)
Does this mark a faster release cycle? (Score:5, Interesting)
Does the release of IE7 mark the beginning of a more aggressive development/release cycle for Internet Explorer? That is, we are all aware of various aspects of CSS, for example, that are not currently supported in IE (though kudos on all the progress in this direction you've made): can we expect updates to IE, either as service packs, point releases, or new versions, that will provide better standards support in the relatively near future? Or will we be limited to security fixes for the foreseeable future, as with IE6?
IE7 and Vista (Score:5, Interesting)
Moo (Score:5, Funny)
Security (Score:5, Interesting)
ooh ohh! i have a question! (Score:5, Funny)
How about this.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Would you expect IE to become as dominant as it is now if users had to specifically choose it over another?
Ignoring the slight impracticalities, if so (I'm guessing you do), on what basis would this be?
how does microsoft choose which CSS/DOM to add? (Score:5, Interesting)
Questions for IE Development Team (Score:5, Funny)
Browser integration (Score:5, Interesting)
Where do you stand on this issue? How central to the XP and Vista experience will IE7 become?
Teaching others about new features in IE7. (Score:5, Interesting)
What I want to know is this: how will you spread word of the new changes and features to neighbor Joe or Grandma Smith -- will you rely on word-of-mouth from the technocracy, or do you trust that your features are transparent enough that they will easily understand the difference between, say, types of SSL certificates provided by sites?
Project Management? (Score:5, Interesting)
-Rick
Allowing Developers to Test for Compatibility (Score:5, Insightful)
Does microsoft have plans for an IE feedback form? (Score:5, Interesting)
Having such a feedback form would mean that people could post things like "Support " or "Fix issue where adds an extra pixel to the border" or whatever and then the IE team could investigate them (just like the Visual Studio team does with the Visual Studio feedback) and provide feedback such as "no, we cant fix this at this time" or "we will consider this for the next release" or "we have investigated this and have a fix already" or "here is a workaround" or whatever else it is. If there was a vote system so people can vote for what they think is important, microsoft could use that information to see how many people want which features (and therefore which features it makes the most sense to implement).
Why develop IE at all (Score:5, Interesting)
I asked Hakon about CSS and now I ask you: (Score:5, Informative)
This past summer Håkon Wium Lie was interviewed on /. and my question was selected [slashdot.org] concerning IE7's glaring lack of full CSS support. Why is it that MS has avoided meeting at least the ACID2 spec for CSS in order to bring some semblance of comformity for developers?
Håkon Wium Lie's response [slashdot.org] to these questions is boiled down to the fact that you do have the talent and resources to fix these issues and he says that "the fundamental reason, I believe, is that standards don't benefit monopolists" like MS.
How do you respond to his comments (the author of the CSS spec) and does MS have any near future plans to adhere to the existing CSS standard? If not, what would it take for MS to take a more proactive role in supporting it?
MOD PARENT UP! (Score:5, Funny)
This is an important question. We don't want people to view the average slashdotter as able to participate in a calm, reasonable discussion. We need to be viewed as zealots, collectively frothing at the mouth.
I'd even like to see this question include just for humour.
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