Ask Microsoft's Martin Taylor About Linux vs. Windows 1069
Martin Taylor is Microsoft's global general manager of platform strategy, but he's best-known as the man the company trots out to refute claims of Linux superiority. Here are links to several interviews he's done in the past two years: vnunet.com; CMP; Computerworld; and one on Microsoft's own site. As usual, please submit one question per post. We'll present 10 - 12 of the highest-moderated questions to Mr. Taylor about 24 hours after this post appears, and we expect to publish his answers within the next week.
Interoperability (Score:4, Interesting)
Has Microsoft considered (Score:1, Interesting)
Quality (Score:4, Interesting)
TWW
Which One? (Score:4, Interesting)
Reviews (Score:1, Interesting)
Why? (Score:5, Interesting)
On second thought, I do have some questions, which I can wrap into a single bundle:
"Is Microsoft going to pursue a Palladium philosophy in the next 5 years? And, if this the strategy, what guarantees will Microsoft make that protect Free Speech?"
Ratboy.
Have you ever used Linux? (Score:5, Interesting)
following (Score:3, Interesting)
Free software (Score:2, Interesting)
Emerging Countries (Score:4, Interesting)
Regardless of the superiority or not (Score:3, Interesting)
-russ
Linux is doing something right (Score:3, Interesting)
Linux must be doing something right, if one of the largest software companies in the US is devoting money and energy to dismiss Linux. Why can't you be confident in your own product? If you were confident in Windows, you would let the Windows OS speak for itself. So are you making up for the failure of Windows by focusing attention on Linux?
hmm (Score:2, Interesting)
Are there any plans for Microsoft on a mainframe hardware? Windows is as well and dandy on x86 hardware, but if I represent a bank and I want a high level of availability on non x86, non Itanium harware, what are you going to provide?
Questions (Score:5, Interesting)
Does Microsoft feel that Linux has any place at all in the IT industry? If so, where?
Paint me cynical (Score:3, Interesting)
This guys is there to refute the claims. I honestly do not expect him to say anything that we haven't heard before.
I would still like to ask "How is using a proprietary
Interoperability... (Score:5, Interesting)
Protection against malware (Score:5, Interesting)
Code Review (Score:5, Interesting)
Fear? (Score:4, Interesting)
Do you read Slashdot? (Score:5, Interesting)
Q. Do you frequent Slashdot and the other Linux boards to say what your competition's saying about you?
How can you take seriously the "Lower TCO" claim? (Score:5, Interesting)
- How Linux admins can easily administrate more machines per person-hour, due to the nature of Unix/Linux's remote administration (and don't even get me started on VNC or Terminal Services; they aren't scriptable, they aren't as bandwidth-effective, etc. etc. etc...), than Windows admins?
- The "hidden" costs of lost time due to (A) protecting against adware/spyware/malware/viruses/pop-ups, or (B) actually disinfecting machines that got infected anyhow.
- The "hidden" costs of downtime due to buggy MS software. Sure, F/OSS stuff has bugs too, but when it does, at least the admin can try to fix them. When MS software is buggy, the admin is 100% at MS's mercy to fix the bug (since, being closed source, MS software is often 100% unfixable to anyone outside MS...)
- The "hidden" costs of dealing with "hacked" IIS servers (vs. Apache).
And a further question: Do Linux geeks really pull in that much more money salary-wise than Windows geeks!? find this claim hard to swallow, especially in today's economy. I call BS. Show some proof.Competition (Score:4, Interesting)
Is there any real, actual reason why you (Microsoft) feel a need to use less than independant reviews and tests to attempt to establish Windows superiority? Would it really be so bad for you to let your products stand (or fall) on their own?
3 areas (Score:5, Interesting)
Open Source Applications Helping Windows Compete? (Score:5, Interesting)
.NET Platform Portability (Score:5, Interesting)
My question is does Microsoft have any intentions of implementing a CLR and BCL for any other non Microsoft platforms where applications built under one would be (relatively) easily used under another (provided the application does not rely on P/Invokes of course)? If not... why?
3 areas (re-phrase) (Score:5, Interesting)
A simple question (Score:2, Interesting)
linux prerogative.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Web Development (Score:1, Interesting)
Why is this?
Future... (Score:5, Interesting)
Skills of the responsible administrator (Score:3, Interesting)
Mr Taylor,
I myself am convinced that neither Windows nor Linux are superior solutions if one's to have an objective view. In my humble opinion, the "superiority" of a system lies in the hands of the administrator responsible for said system and not with the type of software used, in this case. For example, a good Window system administrator with some good experience and the right tools can easily maintain a server just like a well trained and experienced Linux system administrator can maintain his servers. Quite a few people agree on this and recognize the fact that the skills of the responsible administrator are more significant then the software platform used.
The question is, what is your position on this? Do you agree with the aforementioned idea about system administrator capabilities being more important? Or are you convinced that the software platform used is more important?
Security and Modularization of Windows (Score:2, Interesting)
For instance, the new sandboxing for IIS, and other such options, becoming part of a greater security push, but ultimatly an example of seeing the system more 'modular'.
Windows TCO vs. Linux TCO (Score:5, Interesting)
Especially when the costs of upgrading is recurring.
"Platform" (Score:5, Interesting)
More contoll for advanced users (Score:0, Interesting)
Lots of extra features and visual enhancements have been implemented.
For more advanced users some of those features can be considered a nuissance or even a obstacle.
Is it possible that windows longhorn could include a advanced users mode in which there a few wizards and a stripped down GUI?
.NET platform strategy (Score:3, Interesting)
One of the most vital part of any platforms eco-systems are the developers for your platform. Two of the more popular enterprise level platforms currently for show are probably
With the current fight for brain-share among developers with these two platforms, the main focus appear to be on easy of use/integration (where Visual Studio currently leads) and maturity (where I think Java has a head-start).
How do you convince (1) the developers and (2) managers to put their faith in Windows and the
How do you plan to convince potential customers to use your
Free version (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:TCO of Windows vs. Linux (Score:1, Interesting)
The ad would have you believe that the cost of Red Hat Linux far exceeds that of windows over the course of 5 years. One interesting part about this ad is that it has a column off to the right which shows Novell's (Suse) Linux offering. Odd thing is (at least for a M$ ad) that Novell's offering is shown to be almost exactly the same cost as Windows Server 2003.
Is M$ trying to send us towards Windows Server or Novell Linux?
What is Linux doing right? (Score:5, Interesting)
Best of both worlds ? (Score:1, Interesting)
less is more (Score:4, Interesting)
I fail to see why anyone would opt to have to have a Windows gui with IE, Outlook Express, Freecel, Media Player, etc. running on a their server.
Will Microsoft ever become truly serious in the server market and offer an OS that doesn't have all this crap installed by default?
G
big difference (Score:3, Interesting)
How about allowing multiple home installs? (Score:5, Interesting)
Unix Kernel for Windows? (Score:4, Interesting)
Third-world country's Linux TCO (Score:2, Interesting)
Here (Peru) the salaries are lower than in the US, so installation and maintenance costs would be (a lot) lower AND generate jobs, that we need so much. It would also keep the money in the country as it would be spent on saleries instead of spent importing licenses.
Considering that, do those TCO studies apply to third-world countries?
Licensing for Technicians (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm an independant contractor with an MCSE that supports a small customer base of companies that mostly run Windows software. I have four development and testing computers at my house, all of which run Linux and free software solutions, this is because I cannot afford to buy Windows 2003 server, Office 2003, dev studio and a lot of other recent releases.
With my cost free Open Source testing platform I have designed and implemented quite a few solutions with software such as Open Office, Open Exchange, Samba etc.
With online activation and licensing restrictions I am not able to run any Microsoft software in a test environment to ensure it is adequately tested and ensure I am able to support it.
This is driving my skill set and support abilities away from Microsoft and squarely into the arms of the Open Source camp. What (if anything) is Microsoft doing to combat this and ensure that the professionals in the field that sell and support your software have access to the resources they require?
Thanks
John the Kiwi
Re:TCO of Windows vs. Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
One way to look at this is to say that Windows is more compatible with Windows than Linux, and therefore a better choice. Another way of looking at it is that Microsoft is exceedingly successful at locking in its customers, and that (as a customer) it is best to get out as soon as possible because it will only get worse.
Do you worry that people will take this second point of view rather than the first, and that the campaign might backfire?
Re:Why? (Score:5, Interesting)
What do you view as Microsoft's responsibilities to their customers? In what ways do you believe Microsoft has/does/will fulfill these responsibilities better than other software developers?
If you could eliminate one (Score:3, Interesting)
Security through obscurity? (Score:2, Interesting)
Windows 64 Bit? (Score:5, Interesting)
What do you want that Linux has? (Score:5, Interesting)
What I don't see is the other side - specifically, what does Microsoft see in Linux? What does Linux offer that Windows does not, and what does Linux offer that Windows doesn't do as well, from a Microsoft point of view? Just as important, where is Microsoft headed to close those gaps?
Do you read slashdot (Score:2, Interesting)
Unavailability of dual boot Windows/Linux computer (Score:5, Interesting)
Yet, while there are a couple of PC manufacturers that sell a version of their computer with either Linux or Windows, there is none who does sell a single computer with both operating systems? Is there any financial or legal stimulus by Microsoft that prevents PC manufacturers from offering these attractive dual boot computers?
Bert
Re:.NET Platform Portability (Score:2, Interesting)
I think "not portable" is a bit strong of a phrase. It certainly is portable: the CLR is elegant, well-documented and easily could be rewritten (except for maybe Windows Forms). The problem is that MS isn't going out actively to port it like Sun did with Java. They're relying on 3rd-party developers to do the work.
I guarantee you when Longhorn launches, and Avalon (on top of
product or service ? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is there any particular type of software ( op sysems/enterprise apps/utilities/research software/etc ) that should be open source ? why ?
It's because... (WAS:Quality) (Score:4, Interesting)
How has the rise of spyware effected your TCO? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Future... (Score:3, Interesting)
When Mono is 'ready', and MS Office is ported to C#, do you foresee marketing GNU/Linux binaries of Word/Excel/PowerPoint/Access/Visio/Project?
My suspicion is, sure, for MS has always favored profit over prophesy.
Domo.
Release timing (Score:5, Interesting)
I understand that Enterprise customers prefer large updates on a long timetable, but consumers tend to want new features now - I don't want to wait three years for a feature that Gnome, KDE or Apple has to show up in Windows. How do you plan on preventing the Windows brand from becoming "stale" when viewed in relation to a community with a much more rapid and dynamic release schedule?
Re:Quality (Score:3, Interesting)
What is Microsoft's problem with fully supporting open standards? I mean, it's not like they have a really usable alternative to semi-transparent PNGs so why not just follow the standard?
Every time I think about how easy it would be to improve web sites with transparency I get worked up all over again.
OSS Contributions (Score:5, Interesting)
Many major companies such as IBM and Apple have learned that they can benefit from OSS software by taking an existing OSS product, refining it to fit their needs, and then redistributing the finished product and giving some source back to the community. In this manner, for instance, Apple was able to produce Safari, which is IMO a high-quality and stable web browser, that was produced much faster than it would have taken Apple to write an equivilent product from scratch.
Why has Microsoft not taken similar approaches to software development? I guess that in the past, OSS code has been used in Windows (TCP stack, for starters), but why does Microsoft insist on resisting innovation rather than contributing to it?
Why? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Interoperability... (Score:5, Interesting)
Does Microsoft consider open standards, intended to facilitate interoperability, to be beneficial or detrimental to overall system security?
e.g. Closed vs open product development models.
Honest question about FUD (Score:5, Interesting)
I would put this akin to Chevrolet SUV commercials touting a much lower flip-over rate than Ford SUVs equiped with Firestone tires. If you believe this an unfair comparisson, please explain why. (Keep in mind that buggy/compromised software could present a risk to human life.)
Are google morons? (Score:5, Interesting)
They use a LOT of computers, and TCO has got to be important in that enviroment.
[1] See MS advertising and "Get the Facts" literature.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
What's wrong with Linux OTD? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:TCO of Windows vs. Linux (Score:3, Interesting)
Linux community (Score:1, Interesting)
Personally I feel it's the fact that there are SOOOOO many different distros out there.
This guy is nothing more than a paid spin doctor (Score:5, Interesting)
Given that, here is my question:
How does your background make you an authoritative source on IT matters? Give me a few reasons why I would want to ask you a question and value your answer?
(Sorry that's harsh, but I honestly want to know!)
Martin, (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:following (Score:5, Interesting)
I honestly wish I had a dime for all the times I have seen Microsoft people start a holy war when you mention replacing one of their products with a non "Windows" option. I generally ask them the question above "What other products have you looked at or worked with?" I personally don't care who makes a product as long as it makes my life easier and lets me focus on the business, however I will say that I try and avoid companies that lock me in to their technology, so I find myself trying to avoid Microsoft in some ways...
and as I have always said, Once free software is "Good Enough" then the proprietary software vendor is going to be dead. It is almost impossible to compete with free when free is "Good Enough". You can do it but you won't have 50Billion in the bank and have one of the highest profit margins in the world.
Lastly, my question.
At what point in marketshare would Linux need on the client before Microsoft would start porting their applications over to it?
I ask this because it won't be long before the Linux client marketshare will be greater than the Macintosh...
Breaking standards to prevent interoperability (Score:5, Interesting)
Why does Microsoft persist in breaking standards just to lock the competition out? Is it that you are too scared to compete on the merits of your products, the fact that this behaviour has become institutionalised, or some other reason?
Microsoft's Move into Anti-Virus/Spyware (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Quality (Score:2, Interesting)
In other words: they don't care.
I'd be very disappointed if such an obvious and shallow question made the cut, displacing what might be a more interesting question.
Yet, it strikes at the very heart of why so many people despise MS: they don't give a damn about working with other people, even those with no commercial axe to grind, not even with their own users. Why?
On the PNG issue, use AlphaImageLoader. Works like a charm.
As a workaround, it's pretty good and I use it but it fails in some cases where CSS is included from other links, to say nothing of how tiresome it can be in situations where images are read dynamically without knowing their exact dimensions (eg: I did a site where images were uploaded and fitted into a 150x150 box. I did not know in advance if they would be portrait or landscape, but I didn't need to know until IE was reading the page).
Regardless, it's obviously nonsense to need such cruft just to display a standard image format, particularly one as useful as PNG24.
TWW
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
if you had to pick one (Score:2, Interesting)
If you had to chose a flavour of Linux to use on your desktop, what would it be? What do you have experience with? What do you like/dislike?
...Ok, and Gnome or KDE?, Konqueror or Mozilla?
When will Microsoft Office be availible on Linux? (Score:5, Interesting)
linux, and the only reason I use Windows is to work
with documents from Microsoft Office. Will Microsoft release a version of Office for linux,
and if not, why not? It seems to me a major opportunity for consumer choice was lost when Microsoft was not broken up into independent OS and Applications companies.
From a similar viewpoint: (Score:4, Interesting)
* Warning, ugly site, good program.
Moving to Apple and Linux... (Score:3, Interesting)
What would you say to stop me from migrating off of my current Windows solution in this environment?
1 Year Challenge (Score:1, Interesting)
IE7 core... Gecko? (Score:3, Interesting)
Spyware has become the greatest threat to M$ dominance of the client.
Would your company consider replacing the IE rendering engine with Gecko, and abandoning ActiveX?
The alternative seems to be an ever-larger stream of customers who leave Win32 behind.
p.s. The UNIX community would feel much better about you if you released UNIX clients for your larger applications and protocols. How long do you think Oracle could get away with supporting their db client only on Win32? This is exactly what you do with SQL Server. Sometimes, you are your own worst enemy.
Re:Quality (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Third-world country's Linux TCO (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:TCO of Windows vs. Linux (Score:3, Interesting)
One point that should be mentioned is the cost of IT personell for the companies. One major thing MS likes to say is that you can save money on MSCEs as opposed to Unix/Linux admins. However, when you consider that a small company could spend a little more in salary for a Unix/Linux admin, they would end up saving money in areas like taxes and healthcare expenses. If a company can have a single *nix admin at a lowball figure of $60k a year, over 2 MSCEs at $30k a year, they actually save money, because the 2 MSCEs require extra money in taxes, and double the cost of health insurance premiums.
There's also the added costs of forced upgrades, both in software and in hardware costs (new Windows/other MS solutions releases typically require bigger and better hardware) in MS solutions, especially with the Licence 5.0 that forces those small companies who have signed it to upgrade when Microsoft says to upgrade, not when they are ready to upgrade.
I think this particular question is important, but needs to be fleshed out to include all the added costs of using a Microsoft solution (Incluing time wasted getting rid of adware/spyware/viruses/other malware) and compare them to the added costs of switching to a *nix solution (training, support contracts, new admins).
I think if really broken down, this would show that Microsoft is really misleading customers in their TCO arguments, because they simply don't focus on the issues that add into the TCO that can possibly be said to be other parts of the business and not the IT department's problem.
Choices, we like options (Score:1, Interesting)
please don't refute the claims (Score:5, Interesting)
- What are the advantages that gnu/linux has over Windows for the typical user / software developer / corporation?
- Why is gnu/linux better suited for open standards than a proprietary operating system?
- Why would you recommend using gnu/linux for publicly funded government projects?
- What are the best advantages of using Free Software (read: GPL) in third world countries?
- What aspects of Free Software licenses do you feel are particularly well suited to speed up scientific discovery, program development, teaching etc. in an academic environment?
- How do you feel that Free Software can benefit mankind as a whole?
- Finally, please list any advantages proprietary licenses have over Free Software licenses.
Feel free to keep the answers short as some of them are quite obvious to someone well versed in how Free Software works. Thanks!Please share my pain. (Score:2, Interesting)
Martin,
Please help me understand why I'm at work late applying patches to my Windows server enviroment.We have to do this once per month on Windows servers. The patching isn't the problem the extra tools we bought achieve this very well, albeit at a large cost. It's the memo's meetings and justifications we need to produce each time we want to take a production server down every month. The business just can't believe i need to patch so much. They are getting crazy and are suggesting things like 'using enterprise ready Operating systems' in the enterprise. they want to know how many 9's i can give them. OUr HP-UX team gives them 5(9's) and i just feel a little silly. Please help me understand why I'm still at work at 9pm.
Thanks.
PaulAdded Features vs Expected Functionality (Score:3, Interesting)
One frustrating aspect to running Windows desktops is its vulnerability to "malware" (worms, trojans, spyware, etc.). Linux is not without its vulnerabilities, however, the Linux kernel developers and the Distribution companies, do not require the end user to purchase or procure third party solutions to their security vulnerabilities.
My question is, why does Microsoft, with all of its resources, not correct their fundamental vulnerabilities to unwanted executables? Why does MS purchase Antivirus and Anti-Spyware companies and threaten to charge extra for fixing the problems that should be addressed at the root cause?
With Linux, though far from perfect, there has been tremendous effort to avoid white-washing over problems. I don't know of any viruses or trojans for Linux that are so easily executed. Though it's sometimes troublesome to manage each modular package that may be installed, there are no hidden costs and much effort has been made to simply updating (up2date, apt-get, etc.) While Windows update addresses some of these vulnerabilities, it seems to never be enough and without 3rd party anti-virus software, it surely isn't.
How is Microsoft supposed to expect its user base to respect and/or trust its secure computing initiative if the users have to spend extra money to plug the holes that shouldn't be there in the first place? It isn't as if these problems are new.
If the answer is Longhorn, I think the MS user community deserves better than a promise this time.
Question from a former microsoftie... (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the things that I found very troubling was the way in which people at Microsoft seemed to have blinders on regarding Linux. People seemed to think that Exchange Server and Sendmail were competitors, and that there was no economic basis for open source. Do you see yourself in conflict with this element of corporate culture? Do you seem yourself as breaking out of it? Or is that culture changing?
Market penetration vs. Office port (Score:4, Interesting)
A simple, honest question that I care about a lot.
Is there a point in marketshare that Microsoft will consider porting their Office suite to Linux, possibly starting from their Mac OS X codebase?
Can you give us any hints about where that point is?
You've got a hard job. Best of luck with it.
-- Morgan Schweers, CyberFOX!
A Few Questions (Score:2, Interesting)
Quite a few people make a switch towards a OSS platform, such as GNU/linux, today. There will be more in 2006 when longhorn is scheduled to be released.
In the meantime, GNU/linux will have improved, as will desktops such as GNOME and KDE. Indeed, much of MS's perceived advantage in user-interface will have eroded. Also, platforms such as mono will have largely copied
What exactly is your strategy when that will happen? Moreover, how will you win back the people that have switched before that day?
Second.
One of Linux' (and in much more ways: *BSD unix) main advantages in a server enviroment is that the system will run on a multitude of cpu architectures, such as SPARC, PowerPC and x86.
Is there any MS strategy considering other hardware platforms, such as the PowerPC line, SPARC, or the Cell processor line to name a few?
Any of the above will bdo.
Lack of command-line functionality? (Score:5, Interesting)
Many times while attempting to connect to a wireless network I have wished for the simplicity of iwconfig.
This makes Windows much less attractive than Linux from a "power user" standpoint; it is easier for me to type a few commands than to go fishing in menus to find what I want.
Does Microsoft have any plans to modernize the command-line support in Windows?
Microsoft as application vendor for Linux (Score:3, Interesting)
Do you see possible Linux versions for any of the following Microsoft products:
- Streets & Maps, MapPoint
- Encyclopedias
- Games
- Office applications
- Server applications, such as Speech Server and Live Communications Server
Re:Why? (Score:2, Interesting)
If you were to ask six questions of the Slashdot community, what would they be, and why those questions in particular?
Affectionately Yours,
Charlie
got shell? (Score:3, Interesting)
A question, on Microsoft and Linux, if you please. (Score:4, Interesting)
If the marketshare of Linux doubles every year, and many Linux users dual-boot both Windows and Linux, wouldn't it make sense to support Linux instead of bashing it? It would, after all, allow Microsoft to sell two copies of MS-Office, etc for both platforms.
Has MS Considered Open Sourcing? (Score:2, Interesting)
MS has discontinued support for "Windows" operating systems prior to WinMe and, last I heard, also Win2k (I don't know if this is true). Also, MS feels the hot breath of Linux on it's back, and tosses about all manner of FUD regarding TCO, ease of use, etc.
Additionally, MS wants to break into the third-world markets, so it's shipping a stripped down version of XP around the globe--except in America. MS, and indeed Mr. Gates, keep telling us they want to make a better future for our children, yet the consistently SELL computer science to those it claims to help. Sure, you'll give 'puters away, but you make people pay for software and development tools, usually exorbitantly, and don't provide any kind of sample code to teach quality design. (Mind you, I don't think paying for software is bad, but $300/WinXP is a huge chunk of change for someone who wants to learn computers on his own given the time required to lock it down and *really* learn it, especially for underprivileged kids.)
Finally, with the ever-climbing security threat to personal data, and now major institutional data, promulgated by "open source" malware writers (virii, spyware, etc get shared in the underground), it seems to me MS could mitigate huge amounts of bad press simply by Open Sourcing code that pre-dates the "NT" code on which you base your current operating systems.
So why haven't you?
Don't you think MS could hugely benefit from the good PR that would follow such a move? Consider these benefits too:
1)People that learn computer science from an open-sourced windows 98 would "move up" to the more capable/secure WinXP when they outgrow the '98 limitations.
2)Those that move on would be able to better code "the microsoft way," increasing developer base and MicroSoft supporters;
3)MS could wholly abandon the earlier OS's, without outcry, with the simple explanation "Other people support it; now we can better spend our resource improving "longhorn." (this also creates a better reason to upgrade vis a vis the oft repeated MS saw against Linux: "you don't know WHO had their fingers in there!)
4)An exposed windows will be easier to patch for the windows "DIY," coder and help create safer/more secure network;
5)Regional tweaks--Time zones and map colorizations--provided by open sources can be incorporated into modern MS OSes. What better way to serve your customers than incorporating what they, themselves, deem important?
6)lower over all computer costs for third-world markets (after all, your limited XP OS presumes these markets don't require/can't afford the hardware it needs).
7)Unexpected Interface improvements.
Really, the list of good things that can come from this is limitless. The downside, for MS (as I see it) is vindication for the MS critics (code quality, integrations) and the realization among the learned that XP really isn't that different from prior MS offerings, raising the issue "Is XP really an improvement, or is it prettied up vendor lock-in.
So, In case you missed it, the question is: Why don't you open source earlier MS OSes to counter Linux?
Pete