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Quiz Microsoft's IE Team Leader
Posted by
Roblimo
on Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:00 AM
from the man-in-the-hot-seat dept.
from the man-in-the-hot-seat dept.
About as timely an interview as you can get: Microsoft released Internet Explorer 7 last week, and today we're gathering questions for IE team general manager Dean Hachamovitch. As usual, please follow Slashdot interview rules when posting or moderating questions. We'll publish Dean's answers verbatim as soon as he replies.
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Microsoft's IE Team Leader Answers Slashdot Questions 530 comments
We got lots and lots of questions for Dean Hachamovitch, whose formal title is "general manager Internet Explorer at Microsoft Corp." Picking a mere 10 of those questions was not easy, and I wish Dean could have answered twice as many -- and so does he, but his schedule has been tight this week. Anyway, here are his answers to the Chosen Ten.
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Quiz Microsoft's IE Team Leader
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First question (Score:4, Funny)
Re:First question (Score:4, Funny)
How about this... (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.revis.co.uk/)
Re:How about this... (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.intelligentblogger.com/ | Last Journal: Monday August 27, @11:47AM)
Re:How about this... (Score:4, Interesting)
It did work pretty well though, and was in my opinion a superior alternative to the horrors of the really early Mozilla project.
Re:How about this... (Score:4, Informative)
(http://membled.com/)
Re:How about other Microsoft operating systems? (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, if IE7 works under Wine, we have an interesting paradox: it just might be cheaper to upgrade from Win2k to Linux in order to be able to run all the new MS programs which can't run under Win2k.
Something seems so very wrong here...
CSS (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.beuno.com.ar/)
Re:CSS (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:CSS (Score:5, Insightful)
What on earth is "100% W3C compatibility"? The W3C is an organisation, not a specification. They have published hundreds of specifications. No software would implement the lot, nobody would even want to.
You are asking a nonsensical question. A better question would be whether they plan on complete support for specific specifications, such as HTML 4.01, HTTP 1.1, CSS 2.1, DOM 2, SVG 1.1, etc.
Pointless question. (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe that NO browser fully supports CSS. Am I wrong in this assumption? Even if you're asking them to support the standards to the same level as all other browsers the implementation would still be incomplete.
There's a built-in derogatory slant to your question. I believe that IE supports more than 50% of CSS standards, which would mean they went further than half-way. Your choice of words is subtly antagonistic.
It's not a "Have you quit beating your wife" question, but neither is it a suitable one for a serious discussion.
Re:Pointless question. (Score:5, Insightful)
We have a choice. We can either ask questions that are antagonistic, and hope some of our fellow slashdotters will pat us on the back for MS-bashing, or we can ask questions that have a hope of receiving an enlightening response from the representative of Microsoft.
Re:CSS (Score:5, Insightful)
pro Open Source != anti-Microsoft .. (Score:5, Interesting)
Why do you assume that pro Open Source equates with anti-Microsoft
was Re:CSS
Re:pro Open Source != anti-Microsoft .. (Score:4, Funny)
The Bill Gates of Borg icon for this story?
Re:CSS (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.intelligentblogger.com/ | Last Journal: Monday August 27, @11:47AM)
It's difficult to speak for everyone, but I can give my own opinion on your question.
I used to like IE5. Whether I disliked Microsoft or not, it was a superior browser in its day. The problem is, that the standards that Microsoft helped create all those years ago are not actually supported by Microsoft today. To use the example I pointed out in my own question, IE's lack of DOM 2 Events support means that there is absolutely no way to write DHTML code that works in both IE and Firefox. Yet, I can easily write code that works in Firefox, Safari, and Opera.
Is there any reason for this dichotomy? Yes and no. Code can be made to work across the major non-IE browsers, because they all provide at least basic support for the W3C standards. IE has its own attachEvent() model that is (obviously) incompatible at a code level, and subtly incompatible at the behavior level. All that microsoft needs to do is to lay a parallel API that supports the W3C standard, and I would be a happy fellow. Yet they haven't done that, won't do that, and I have NO IDEA WHY.
So I continue to write code that works in Firefox, Safari, and Opera, then special patches to make it work in IE. From where I'm sitting, I just want the problem to go away. If Microsoft fixes their browser, then I'll be happy. If Microsoft can't do that, then I will carry the "Down With IE!" torch until their browser is irrelevant in the market. Then I'll also be happy.
Basically, my web browser opinion is not one based on my feelings about Microsoft. I just want a market were I can target a single standard is all. If Microsoft abuses their Web Browser monopoly to stand in the way of that, then it is my duty as a web developer* to help smash that monopoly.
* What happened to the "Developers, developers, developers" jingle, hmm? Are we important, or aren't we?
Re:CSS (Score:4, Interesting)
Do you have any plans to support CSS 2.1 *when it's finished*?
Re:CSS (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.scphotogs.com/)
Browser comeptition is likely to continue in the marketplace, and as such, the feature sets of browsers will vary in order to appeal to a certain user base. Firefox has become something of the de facto standard for developers, to the extent that many web designers follow the practice of "design with FF in mind" while adding scripting and such to correct for what are commonly referred to as IE tweaks. Given this environment, there are 5 germane questions to ask:
1. Does the Microsoft vision for IE7 place it in comeptition with Firefox as the browser of choice for developers?
2. If so, what feature sets will IE7 have that can compete with Firefox and the open source community, and will those features include increased recognition and compliance with W3C standards?
3. Often times I find myself opening IE for simply Microsoft functions that I otherwise cannot do in my browser of choice. Will cross-based browser support ever occur for common Microsoft functions like Windows and Office updates?
4. As IE7 goes public as an update for those in a post-Windows 2000 environment, are there plans to make this upgrade available for businesses that still rely on those features of the Windows 2000 family of clients and servers?
5. Finally, as some businesses rely on certain functionalities embedded in IE6 that are no longer there in IE7, are there plans to allow for dual instances of IE6 and IE7 in the future to allow for software and program compatability for businesses and their 3rd party vendors?
Re:CSS (Score:5, Interesting)
Please add this one to the list if the others do not make it. I still do not understand ignoring W2k support with Firefox breathing down Microsoft's neck.
So I can buy new hardware and new OS in order to get anti-phishing and tab support, or I can download Firefox for free???
Evil Plan? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is this purposeful? If not, what is the reason?
Re:Evil Plan? (Score:4, Insightful)
Just wondering, but what kind of answer are you expecting here? "Dang, yes, you caught us in our secret ploy! Oh well, back to the drawing board!" :)
IE's design goals (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.astradyne.co.uk/tet | Last Journal: Friday November 09, @08:34PM)
Is it your goal to render a standards compliant website correctly in all cases, or are you just aiming to implement those parts of the spec that are used by the majority of your customers? Naturally, I can understand prioritizing the things that are hitting your customers above those that are rarely used in the real world, but part of the reason the some of them aren't used in the real world is down to lack of browser support. I find it incredibly frustrating that some of my site layouts have to be butchered just to get them to work in the commonly used browsers. If IE fails to render a compliant page according to the spec, can you commit to actively tracking it as a bug with a view to fixing it in a future release of IE, even if it only affects a handful of people?
Re:IE's design goals (Score:5, Funny)
(Last Journal: Sunday October 22 2006, @10:27PM)
This needs to be answered (Score:3, Funny)
MOD PARENT UP! (Score:5, Funny)
This is an important question. We don't want people to view the average slashdotter as able to participate in a calm, reasonable discussion. We need to be viewed as zealots, collectively frothing at the mouth.
I'd even like to see this question include just for humour.
Re:MOD PARENT UP! (Score:4, Insightful)
A question (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.revis.co.uk/)
Re:A question (Score:5, Interesting)
Prediction: (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Prediction: (Score:5, Informative)
(http://roblimo.com/ | Last Journal: Sunday November 04, @01:39PM)
- Robin
Interface (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Interface (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Interface (Score:4, Informative)
Agreed, the UI for IE7 is strange. If this is a hint of Vista I expect Mac and Linux will pick up a few desktop users afer the release.
FYI this reg setting will move the menu bar to the top.
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Toolbar\WebBrowser]
"ITBar7Position"=dword:00000001
Standardized Compliance Tests (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.spacewalrus.com/)
Best/Future Features (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.theinternetisboring.net/)
My Question (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.beryllium.ca/)
Presumably, throughout this development process for IE7, your team has had their nose to the grind-wheel, so to speak. What sort of things did you do to chill out and relax? Were there any in-office perks, like pool tables or whatnot? And were you actually all in the same office, or did some members of the team have to telecommute from far-off lands, like Oregon?
IE8? (Score:4, Funny)
IE7 release time (Score:5, Interesting)
Follow up (Score:5, Interesting)
DOM 2 Events (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.intelligentblogger.com/ | Last Journal: Monday August 27, @11:47AM)
As someone who's been forced into using runtime patches (example [lachy.id.au]) to increase IE's compatibility with DHTML code, I feel compelled to ask: Why has the IE team ignored this critical standard?
Re:Not just the Events module... (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.zetafleet.com/)
What I MEANT to write was:
* Tables that are created dynamically will not appear unless elements are added to <tbody> -- in other words, using DOM to write <table><tr><td>content</td><tr><table> does not display anything, even though <tbody> is optional.
* getElementsByTagName('object').item(0).getElement
As far as the navigator.plugins is concerned, it's definitely possible that it's a fragment of the browser wars, but that would be rather weird (except as an intentional attempt to sabotage Netscape Plugins API in order to push ActiveX -- something I find much more plausible than "fixing Netscape-only sites"). An empty nagivator.plugins would be just as easy to detect as one that didn't exist, and if something depended on it being there so that it could find a plugin, the site still wouldn't work in IE.
As an aside, between my last post and now, I ran some JavaScript unit tests from the W3C Compatibility Test Suite.
http://www.w3.org/2003/02/06-dom-support.html [w3.org]
DOM Conformance Test Suites
==========
DOM Core 1
----------
Internet Explorer 7 (37.95% failure)
Tests: 224
Errors: 4
Failures: 85
Opera 9.02 (11.34% failure)
Tests: 238
Errors: 12
Failures: 27
Firefox 1.5.0.7 (5.88% failure)
Tests: 238
Errors: 15
Failures: 14
==========
DOM Core 2
----------
Internet Explorer 7 (45.45% failure)
Tests: 11
Errors: 2
Failures: 5
Opera 9.02 (36.36% failure)
Tests: 11
Errors: 0
Failures: 4
Firefox 1.5.0.7 (18.18% failure)
Tests: 11
Errors: 0
Failures: 2
==========
DOM HTML 2
----------
Internet Explorer 7 (8.47% failure)
Tests: 685
Errors: 16
Failures: 58
Firefox 1.5.0.7 (1.31% failure)
Tests: 685
Errors: 0
Failures: 9
Opera 9.02
I tried about 20 times to get Opera to
complete this test, and it would constantly
fail to load files and Retry did nothing.
Oh, well. I'd guesstimate the failures are
probably around 2-3%.
I'd say there's a pretty serious fucking problem when nearly 38% of DOM Core 1 functionality is BROKEN.
Doing WebSite development. (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://tsfraser.googlepages.com/index.html)
Simple questions (Score:5, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Wednesday November 07, @10:09AM)
IE has a dominating command of the market, although Firefox is slowly making inroads, due to innovations such as tabbed browsing that IE has had to incorporate to maintain that command. But where are the IE innovations? Why can't the IE team get ahead of the curve on Firefox? Is there anything you consider an innovation that is unique to IE that would plausibly be something the browser market would have to incorporate to stay competitive?
Why ditch platform conventions (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://jfctravelclub.com/travelblog/)
There is a workaround [enhanceie.com] that involves editing the registry to get the menu bar in the correct place but why is this not implemented as part of toolbar customisation?
Microsoft jisallim aklak (Score:5, Interesting)
IE7 + Win2k (Score:5, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Saturday February 25 2006, @11:02PM)
It's not like it'd be any less secure than IE6 on Win2k.
How much of SpyGlass is left in IE7? (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.hae.com)
Re:How much of SpyGlass is left in IE7? (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://monogon.org/)
Re:How much of SpyGlass is left in IE7? (Score:4, Informative)
(http://jfctravelclub.com/travelblog/)
Now that transparency and CSS is fully implemented (Score:5, Interesting)
My shot (Score:5, Interesting)
IE 8 (Score:5, Interesting)
Does this mark a faster release cycle? (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.livejournal.com/users/control_group)
Does the release of IE7 mark the beginning of a more aggressive development/release cycle for Internet Explorer? That is, we are all aware of various aspects of CSS, for example, that are not currently supported in IE (though kudos on all the progress in this direction you've made): can we expect updates to IE, either as service packs, point releases, or new versions, that will provide better standards support in the relatively near future? Or will we be limited to security fixes for the foreseeable future, as with IE6?
IE7 and Vista (Score:5, Interesting)
IE vs. Firefox (Score:3, Interesting)
Moo (Score:5, Funny)
(http://tkatch.com/ | Last Journal: Monday October 29, @02:09PM)
Security (Score:5, Interesting)