Ask Mozilla Foundation Chief Mitchell Baker

There have been several recent reports of squabbles and problems involving Mozilla and Firefox development. In an attempt to clear the air about what's going on inside the Mozilla Project and the Mozilla Foundation, Mitchell Baker has agreed to answer 10 - 12 Slashdot questions. Please look at some recent interviews with Ms. Baker and check her blog before posting in order to avoid duplication. We'll publish her answers within the next week.

Two questions spring to mind:

[tabkey12 (851759)]

Are you going to change your name now that you are no longer updating your eponymous web suite?

What is the volume of complaints you have received when the Mozilla suite was cancelled - more or less than you expected?

Re:Two questions spring to mind:

[kollivier (449524)]

Why do you think this caught people so off-guard, given that the Mozilla Foundation announced its intention to do so several years ago, and it has been clearly stated on the development roadmap for 2 or 3 years? What could you have done to be more clear?

If it was stated on the roadmap 2 or 3 years ago that there would be no Mozilla 1.8, then why was it a discussion issue just a month or so back? It certainly seems like someone in the Mozilla dev crew didn't know as an absolute fact that there'd be no Mozilla 1.8, and if their own developers didn't know, how can you fault average users for not realizing it?

Yeah, people knew it would stop being supported, but I think they just thought they'd get a little warning beforehand. After all, what were all those people testing, then? The "backend" of Mozilla? Was this made clear to them? Did they realize they were testing software that would never be officially released? If they DID realize it, would they have still spent time testing it? I read about one poor guy who actually went through and updated language translations for Mozilla 1.8, only to find it was pointless of him to do so. A little communication earlier on in the process would have avoided all this.

Criticize all you want, but big organizations would be eaten alive by their customers if they pulled something like this. Microsoft has trouble discontinuing Win98 support YEARS in advance. Mozilla is growing, and open source is a give and take strategy. If the project wants the support of the community, they've got to be willing to accomodate the needs and concerns of the community as well. I don't think it's fair to simply bash Mozilla for their mistakes, but I believe they could have dealt with the situation better than they did, and it would benefit the project if they learned how to handle these situations better, especially now that they're getting the attention of the public in general.

What will be the testbed?

[Ars-Fartsica (166957)]

Now that the Moz suite is apparent non-official, how will new code be tested? Will there be some sort of "beta" Firefox release for testing? Or a new very minimal piece of code that is a testbed yet not useful to consumers?

Funding

[ites (600337)]

Could you explain how the Mozilla Foundation currently gets its funding and what your vision is on the long-term funding for open source projects like Mozilla?

Re:Funding

[fm6 (162816)]

That's the first question most of us would ask. A related question: what's the significance of Ben Goodger [mozillazine.org] switching his employment from Mozilla Foundation to Google? Is this just a device to offload some of your payroll costs?

Waiting for the dust to settle

[suso (153703)]

I imagine this next year will be some of the most trying times for the Mozilla foundation as lots of people and companies are going to expect Firefox and Thunderbird to do and be lots of things. How do you plan to handle this all this pressure?

--
suso.org website/email hosting [suso.org], no disk space quotas and personalized support.

Names

[sulli (195030)]

What products are you planning on renaming now?

And if so, what 1970's muscle cars will they be renamed for?

Consider affect on large corp customers?

[sphealey (2855)]

Prior to making the decision to not release a final 1.8 version of the Mozilla Suite, did you analyze the affect this would have on large corporate customers doing internal deployments? Although we are small, I work with some fairly large entities who are using 1.4/1.7 for internal deployments (>10,000 seats in one case) and were expecting there is be a 1.8 final - even if that was the last one.

Does this decision to drop Suite 1.8 in mid-stream as it were affect the credibility of Mozilla Foundation in the long run?

sPh

Browser of choice?

[Sparr0 (451780)]

So, what do YOU use on the desktop? Firefox and Thunderbird, Mozilla Suite, Internet Explorer and Outlook, Opera and Eudora?

Calendar

[EvilStein (414640)]

Are there any more plans to put weight behind the calendaring solution?

I know that Sunbird exists and there's now Lightning [mozilla.org] but the project details are quite vague. The Mozilla Suite could benefit greatly from a fully functional calendar, especially in the small business realm.

Security Updates

[Mr. Sketch (111112)]

What are the plans for incremental security updates to the Firefox suite? Currently we only get a new release of Firefox that has to be reinstalled. Are there plans to allow small security patches to be applied without having to reinstall the whole application?

Obligatory

[m50d (797211)]

As a female with a fairly high profile among the open source community, do you get a lot of unwanted attention from losers like me?

Future / Challeneges

[Askjeffro (787652)]

Where do you see the Mozilla foundation in 5 years?

What types of new projects are the Foundation considering?

Why should the average consumer use Mozilla software over Microsoft's offerings?

What is Mozilla's greatest challenge in getting the average PC user to utilize their software?

Corporate-scale Firefox usage

[Tuxedo Jack (648130)]

Given how easy it is to deploy Firefox across a campus (load it into a Ghost loadset, then deploy in your next periodic reclone), why, in your opinion, are medium-to-large companies loathe to deploy anything but IE, especially given the tendencies of employees to use office machines for distinctly non-work purposes, which often leads to malware infections?

Raising the bar

[Grip3n (470031)]

Clearly the fact that Microsoft had a monopoly on the browser market reared its ugly head; we haven't seen any improvements to IE for around 5 years. However, as soon as the hint of competition comes, MS is back on their feet.

Now that MS has put people back on their IE development team, it seems inevitable that IE will soon have the same features that Firefox does: tabbed browsing, pop-up blocking, 24-bit PNG support, etc. What is the Mozilla Foundation's move to keep people excited about installing Firefox over being content with IE? Many of my friends who are less than computer savvy are more than content staying with what Windows already has unless there are some compelling reasons to switch. Firefox at the moment has those reasons in spades, but a quick tune-up to IE would undermine Firefox's natural advances.

In short: how are you planning to keep Firefox ahead of the curve?

Can we continue to increase usage

[brandonp (126)]

After considering two developments:

1) The increased usage of Mozilla/Firefox browsers has seemed to be flattening recently, although still growing.
2) It is rumored that Internet Explorer 7 Beta will be released this summer. This would appear to steal some thunder from Mozilla & Firefox browsers.

What can be done to make sure that Mozilla and Firefox browsers will continue to reach and surpass the 10% usage point? How can the community deal with the probable hype that would be generated around the release of a Internet Explorer 7 Beta?

Embedding (and Mac!) Support

[kollivier (449524)]

Dear Ms. Baker,

I'm one of the core developers on wxMozilla, and for some time I've been wondering how exactly the GRE / Gecko SDK fits into the overall Mozilla framework and roadmap. I have two questions that center around that issue.

First, the current Mozilla communication issues are especially confusing for embedders, because, for example, the GRE has traditionally used the same numbering scheme as the Mozilla Suite. (i.e. there's not going to be a Mozilla 1.8, but what does that mean for GRE 1.8?) Furthermore, there's no roadmap for the GRE, so it's hard to tell where it's going or what the priorities are. So could you comment on what you see as the future of the GRE and Gecko SDK as Mozilla products?

I have one more related question, because I'm a Mac user. ;-) I noticed the hiring of Josh Aas to the Mozilla Foundation and a commitment to improving Mac support, which I was very excited to hear about, and I was wondering if this includes improving the embedding libraries on Mac? (Modern Mac apps have significant troubles with the current embedding libs, which are geared towards OS 8/9 apps.) I realize this is open source, and I'm certainly willing to help in any efforts towards this end (and have already made headway towards some patches), but I would need some help and support from the Mozilla project to make this real.

Thanks for taking some time out to read and respond to these issues!

libgecko?

[Compenguin (175952)]

Now that seamonkey has being discontinued are there any plans to release a libgecko/libgre type package that the aviary products can link against and that the embedders (e.g. yelp/galeon/epiphany) can link agianst?

integration and lost features

[codemachine (245871)]

I'm wondering whether there are any plans to integrate the existing stand-alone applications, and whether this will even be possible now that the Mozilla Foundation is not doing development on all of them.

For example, it might be useful to see integration between two or more of Firefox, Thunderbird, Sunbird, Nvu, the address book, and a chat component. But since the Mozilla Foundation does not develop Nvu or Chatzilla any longer (is anyone working on Chatzilla or any XUL chat app any longer?), this won't necessarily be easy.

Is there any plans to work with Linspire and other application developers to integrate their work with Firefox and Thunderbird? Will the Mozilla Foundation be doing official extensions that bring some of the suite functionality to the stand-alone products?

XUL as a development platform

[codemachine (245871)]

What are the Mozilla Foundation's plans regarding the future of XUL as a development platform, especially as it regards competing with IE/XAML/Avalon? Will you push Firefox as a platform in itself like Netscape tried to do with their browser, or will the browser project and the XUL platform be handled seperately?

I ask because it seems like many of the Mozilla 2.0 goals would apply to all XUL applications and the platform itself, not just Firefox. I could see two approaches to the development of Mozilla 2.0 - one being that Firefox becomes the testbed that the Suite used to be, the other being that the FireFox team only worries about producing a browser and another group develops the "platform" as a whole. But how would this platform be developed and tested going forward, and will it be capable of competing with Avalon/XAML?

SVG graphics?

[by Anonymous Coward]

When will there be a real effort to support SVG and have it turned on in the builds by default?

Firefox drive wiping bug took one year to fix?

[chris59256 (867944)]

Recently I learned of a bug in Windows Firefox versions prior to 1.01 which was fixed in this version. This bug wipes user's hard disks. I've located 15 users who've suffered from this bug.
Why did it take over *one year* to fix this serious bug?
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=2257 31 [mozillazine.org]

The bug only occurs when a user uninstalls Firefox. A user who uninstalls version 1.0 to prepare for installing version 1.01 is vulnerable. Why has the Firefox homepage not been updated to warn all users about this fact, and to offer a safe remedy?

At least 15 people reported the bug. Assuming that 5% of victims would post publicly about it, this would leave around 300 actual victims. Even 5% is probably too high; a 1% estimate would leave around 1,500 total victims. Since the bug only occurs when Firefox is uninstalled, many hundreds or perhaps even thousands of potential future victims exist.

The bug was reported in bugzilla and discussed without fixing for over *one year*. At one point a developer didn't remove the dangerous code because he said "This is not an acceptable solution to force on all users because some people make bad assumptions and then don't read dialogs." Is Firefox truly ready for "the masses" when developers maintain this sort of attitude towards users?

(copy, remove spaces, and paste bugzilla links since they won't work from Slashdot)

Original bugzilla bug:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id =23362 5

Firefox advocate ivanii attempts to raise concern about this bug (10/07/2004)
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=node/view/2808 [spreadfirefox.com]

Here's links to a few people who suffered from this bug:
1.http://computercops.biz/postp82180.html [computercops.biz]
Thu Feb 12, 2004
"Using the Firefox uninstaller has deleted almost everything in the Program Files directory..."

2.http://www.terryfrazier.com/1391 [terryfrazier.com]
10/5/2004
"What idiot writes an uninstall routine that wipes out everything in the parent folder?!"
"This is not some minor issue. This is a show stopper. I mean, damn!"
"..every last vestige of that vile firefox has been eradicated from my registry. "

3.http://sillydog.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4062 6 [sillydog.org]
04 Aug, 2004
"After un install Firefox lost all ,MBX Eudora mail files"
4.http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic. php?t=64 871&sid=2d93836acbfea243769078b48c3eff90 [mozillazine.org]
2004-03-28
Also posted on Bugzilla as user "Cy"
"This is not a minor inconvience. This is CARNAGE!!! Uninstalling a browser and ending up wiping out almost your entire hard drive."
"This is ruining mozilla's reputation. I now have a distrust of any win installer release by mozilla"

5.rajarajan.sampath final bugzilla victim to post.
2005-02-04
"The uninstaller wiped off, 2/3rd of my programs. This shouldnt be the case, no matter what."

6. Thomas Passin (original buzilla poster)
2004-02-09
"This is DANGEROUS."

7.https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2 42 118
2004-04-29
"...I uninstaled the whole directory "E:/Program Files"!! It wasn't very nice for me..."

8. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26969 9
2004-11-13
"All my backups and irreplaceble files are now lost.....Thank you for making a shitty uninstaller....i fucking hate you now"

9.https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2 71 805
2004-11-25
"Firefox will deleted all my other program in c:\program files. very unlucky,I did it!!"

10. https://bugzil

Re:Will you allow the Seamonkey project

[jonasj (538692)]

That question is answered in the very latest post in her blog. You know, the blog that was linked to in the summary with the note "check her blog before posting in order to avoid duplication"?

And the answer is no.

I can answer that one for you

[CdBee (742846)]

It's already available as a highly-developed stand-alone, called Nvu and sponsored by Lindows/Linspire of all people.

Re:ABC News stories crash Firefox 1.01.

[TheFlyingGoat (161967)]

I have moderator points, but I want to respond instead. I can visit both of those two ABC links without Firefox 1.0.1 crashing. I've tried reloading the pages, changing the text size, printing, and it all works fine.

I was having problems with ESPN.com crashing when 1.0.1 first came out, and posted a bug report on it. Turns out completely deleting the directory and reinstalling fixed the problem, which was originally caused by a bad Flash app on the page.

The Firefox crew handles crash reports pretty quickly in my experience. Perhaps someone just needs to tweak the installer to completely remove all the old files instead of just copying the new ones.