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Ask Lt. Col. John Bircher About Cyber Warfare Concepts
Posted by
timothy
on Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:20 PM
from the please-include-your-gps-coordinates dept.
from the please-include-your-gps-coordinates dept.
The Air Force is not the only U.S. military branch trying to come to grips with the electronic side of warfare, both current and future. The U.S. Army Computer Network Operations (CNO)-Electronic Warfare (EW) Proponent (USACEWP), located at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas — home to the U.S. Army's Combined Arms Center — serves as the Army's hub for cyber-electronic concepts and capabilities. This is the organization responsible for developing doctrine, materiel and training to prepare the Army for cyber-electronic engagements. For example, USACEWP has developed training teams to ensure that U.S. commanders and soldiers around the world are fully informed of cyber-electronic capabilities at their disposal. Leading the Proponent's Futures branch is Lt. Col John "Chip" Bircher; Bircher entered the Army in 1989 as an Infantry officer, then served in various command and staff positions, most recently Information Operations (IO). He was the IO Chief for the 25th Infantry Division (Light), Hawaii, and Director of IO for Combined Joint Task Force -76, Bagram, Afghanistan. If you want to know more about the realities and challenges that face an armed, global IT department in a time when electronic warfare is ever more important and dangerous, now's your chance to ask Lt. Col. Bircher some questions. We'll pass on the highest-moderated questions for Lt. Col. Bircher to answer. Usual Slashdot interview rules apply.
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Lt. Col. John Bircher Answers Your Questions 232 comments
A few weeks ago, you asked questions of Lt. Col. John Bircher, head of an organization with a difficult-to-navigate name: the U.S. Army Computer Network Operations (CNO)-Electronic Warfare (EW) Proponent's Futures Branch. Lt. Col. Bircher has answered from his perspective, at length, not just the usual 10 questions, but several more besides. Read on for his take on cyberwar, jurisdiction, ethics, and more.
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John Bircher? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:John Bircher? (Score:5, Funny)
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Technique? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Damn! (Score:3, Funny)
Legal Ramifications (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Why so many directly connected networks at all? (Score:5, Interesting)
Why aren't there more isolated networks that would require physical contact or interception to get to in the first place? Do sensitive systems really need any connection at all to the conventional internet in the first place?
I know that many places in the DoD do take this approach (people having one computer for safe email and browsing, and a completely different computer for sensitive intel), and certainly it's more expensive and less convenient. But when the internet is basically just a big pathway leading directly to your backdoor, why take any chance at all, ever?
Re:Why so many directly connected networks at all? (Score:4, Funny)
Good point - I guess if the Internet had been designed by the military (or, say, by a military research group) it certainly wouldn't have ended up this way...
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe they have people who can go places and attach wireless / satellite access points to various networks. It's not a safe job, but the military has plenty of jobs that aren't safe.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It is often the case that the sensitive systems aren't directly connected to the Internet. Instead, the sensitive system gets inadvertently connected to another (less-sensitive) system that is connected to the Internet. The second systems gets compromised, which gives the attacker a way to attack the first system.
For example, as I understand it, a nuclear plant was taken offline by attackers. The control system was not connected to the Internet. However, the management system (payroll, timecards, etc
What is that? (Score:5, Interesting)
Include examples.
Compare/contrast with traditional forms of intelligence gathering (wiretaps, listening devices, etc) and their counter-measures.
Interview Question (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Interview Question (Score:5, Insightful)
You made a typo there. Here's a correction:
With the political tilt as it is, a large part of the software development community is likely inclined against helping politicians use the Army as a tool to fight wars which harm our country.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
a large part of the software development community is likely prejudiced against helping our country
Say what?
If you mean to say lots of us don't support invading foreign countries without causus belli, or we start complaining at the suspension of habeas corpus and being jailed indefinitely without charges, then you're confusing "helping our country" with supporting the government.
Defending Liberty and Supporting our President are not necessarily the same thing.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Probably he'd rather recruit people who will obey orders to the best of their abilities as long as those orders are legal. I don't think the military is interested in people who want an option to leave if they don't agree with their orders.
There are people who don't make good soldiers. I'm one of them. That doesn't mean that out of a population of ~300 million he won't find the people he's looking for.
Hacker war... (Score:5, Interesting)
And if and if ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Example: the NSA has worked on SELinux.
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For us geeks who'd be sitting behind a computer .. (Score:5, Funny)
If so, would basic training be to train us to stay up all night, living on pizza, soda, Skittles, and porn?
If so, where do I sign up?!?
Re:For us geeks who'd be sitting behind a computer (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:For us geeks who'd be sitting behind a computer (Score:4, Funny)
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Relationship with the Air Force? (Score:5, Interesting)
Since the Air Force is the U.S. military branch claiming dominance in "cyberspace" (along with air and space), how do you view the Army's relationship with the Air Force in "cyberspace"? Will the Army seek to take over all of the "cyberspace warfare", carve out its own niche in cyberspace, or peacefully coexist with the Air Force?
With respect to leadership in this area across the DoD, do you feel that the Air Force being denied the program executive role for all DoD UAV endeavors represents an opportunity for the Army increase its role with respect to UAVs (as many people see cyberspace and UAVs to be inextricably linked)?
Attacks... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Attacks... (Score:5, Funny)
Can you imagine what might have happened, if you had not so qualified your question? He might have let the cat out of the bag!
Personally, I would have phrased it this way: "Please tell us everything you're up to. (It's ok. We're cool.)"
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China (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:China (Score:5, Interesting)
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Recruitment (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Recruitment (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Go to the recruiter and say "I want to do XYZ". If you are lucky you will get a recruiter that isn't a slimeball and will actually help you do specifically what you want. Hit or miss here, some are really amazing folks that know how to work things, others are asshats that know how to sleaze kids in. Do your research first. Non military and recruiters are about the last people you want to talk to for "how it really is" information, one is clueless and comes up with nonsense stories, the other has a clue and comes up with nonsense stories. Currently active or recently retired people will have the best information, though it will frequently be a bit dated. It is best to refine your questions with them and then ask specific pointed questions of the recruiters.
2. Go to the MEPS (Military Entrance Processing Station I believe) and do the tests. ASVAB being the big one here, all branches use these scores in one way or another to determine what jobs you are qualified to do. This isn't exactly a hard test by any stretch, more than anything it gives the military a guess as to how complex of a school they can send you to without wasting money on you failing out. You will also go through the whole physical thing, eye tests, piss tests, blah blah blah.
3. Go to the career manager folks. Each branch has a different name for them and this part will typically happen at the MEPS. Again, much like recruiters they are hit or miss. However, they have a bit better of an excuse. They aren't there to convince you to join so much as for you to tell them what specific job you want to do. These are the people that look up your scores and compare that to job requirements and then check for openings in that job. They process tons of people per day, many of which have no idea what they want to do other than "work on computers" or "fix planes" or whatever. The key to coming out of this is to do your research well before you go. Narrow down what you want to do to a few jobs and know their code for whichever branch you are talking to. These people are experts at human resources stuff, not the details of whatever career you want. They probably won't be able to answer much unless they came from that career or know someone in that career. The best bet is to get your recruiter to arrange some time to meet people in the career field you are interested in and get the answers that way.
4. Go to basic training. Everyone goes, no way past that.
5. Go to your school. Each branch does this a bit differently, but after basic training you will go to the school for your chosen job. This could be 2 weeks long, it could be 2 years long, all depends on the job.
6. Pray for your assignment. Now you are in, you have the career you want, and now it is a roll of the dice. You go where they need your career, period. There are a number of programs to finagle your way around to places you want, but don't expect any of them to help you much in your early days. Your best bet here is to do a damned good job, don't be a fuckup, and let your supervisors know what your goals are. Good supervisors will help you get where you want to go. Above all else, don't expect it to happen quickly.
National Guard units basically follow the same steps, except for the assignment process. With the Guard you will be joining a specific unit when you enlist. So you will already know exactly what your assignment will be. The Guard units are able to do much more targeted recruiting because of this. The Active Duty world you kind of go into a big pot and stay there unless you managed to get into special assignments (usually by being really good at what you do and leaning forward for opportunities).
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Re:Recruitment (Score:5, Insightful)
"But the recruiter promised me" means absolutely nothing.
If it isn't in writing, don't expect it to happen.
The corollary to this is: if it is in writing and you have to sue, at best expect a Pyrrhic victory.
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What limitations do you observe? (Score:5, Interesting)
Why does the Army have a love affair with Windows (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Jurisdiction? (Score:5, Interesting)
Avoiding Redundancy or is it Necessary? (Score:5, Interesting)
Source Code (Score:3, Interesting)
I realize this is based on the assumption that we know what OS and programs they are running, but Windows for instance, it's reasonable to assume that most computer users use some form of it either legally aquired or illegally.
Timing and relevancy (Score:5, Interesting)
Can you explain what seems to be the US Military arriving at the game in the third inning?
Having had TSEC and observed security processes and procedures, such as tempest precautions some time ago, I'm having trouble understanding why the 'cyber defenses' of the US Military only now seem to be actually realized.
Is the delay due to funding? Priorities? or simply to underestimation of what the rest of the world was up to all this time?
Please be as specific as you are able to be.
Thank you.
Are you running botnets? (Score:5, Interesting)
Threat Assessment (Score:5, Interesting)
How do you perform a threat assessment in the area of cyber-warfare where the physical weapons (as was pointed out in an earlier post) is the keyboard and mouse with much of technology being used as a threat being developed in the U.S?
Thanx,
myke
"Civilian contractors" (Score:5, Interesting)
Hurdles of Cyber Warfare (Score:5, Interesting)
One issue to cyber warfare is linguistics. How does a military unit overcome this? Does the unit consist of people skilled at the various languages used in theater plus the technical concepts required to execute, or are you forced to cooperate with any other agency?
Also, agency cooperation: are there good relationships between the cyberwarfare units and the intelligence community, and can you say whether or not there are SOPs in place that would utilize cyberwarfare units in conjunction with a physical offensive, i.e. disable Three Gorges Dam right before an op.
Thanks for the time!
Computer Literacy (Score:5, Interesting)
Daemon? (Score:3, Interesting)
Do you think The Singularity is approaching, and if so, do you think you're prepared for it?
Materiel isn't a typo in the summary (Score:3, Informative)
Are We At War? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is there any traditional military precedent for tolerating these attacks to the extent we do? Is that hesitancy making us weaker, so our eventual delayed military (or "cyber-military") response will be compromised from winning the conflict to our satisfaction?
At what point do these attacks constitute acts of war, does that need to be declared by Congress, and how does the "cyber command" change its response at that point?
What value does doign it in the Army add? (Score:5, Insightful)
Would you agree that a special, single cyber-defense branch should be created to assist all branches of the military as well as non-military?
Generally the armed forces are never known for technical prowess. (They are more consumers than creators) The role of creation comes from contractors. Why shouldn't we rely on contractors to perform these functions when contractors already obtain top-secret clearances? Contractors compete for projects which ensures a level of cost limitation (lets face it, Cost+ rips off the tax payer), continual advancement (beyond what the enemy throws at us).
Why should the armed forces be doing this in-house?
A military brat asks: (Score:3, Interesting)
In your work as Director of IO for Combined Joint Task Force -76, what were your greatest challenges in Afghanistan? What technology threats other than IEDs were your greatest concern?
Making defenses availible to the tax payers (Score:5, Insightful)
What limitations or rules would you use for release of such information?
Peace is a valid concept (Score:5, Insightful)
If you think it is possible to have a world where there are no armed forces, you are not adovcating for a peaceful world when you say that. You are in fact unknowingly advocating for a more brutal, injust and violent world. This is so simply because you have not yet made yourself acquainted with, or made peace with (no irony intended), certain ugly but unremovable aspects of fundamental human nature.
Or, you could try to remove those aspects of human nature in the name of peace. This sets you down the road to autocracy, and makes you an enemy of free will and free expression. If you wish to continue to respect the notion of free will and free expression, you must understand why a force of arms is always necessary to be at the ready, in the name of peace.
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Egads! Where to start? (Score:4, Insightful)
Ever watch a mountain lion kill a deer, eat it's fill, then wander off to let the bulk of the deer rot? I have. How about dogs that are not fenced in killing cats for fun, or wildlife? Yep, seen that too...many times. How about the cats killing stuff and bringing it home as a trophy? Yep, all the time again.
You have no clue here on this subject.
"Oh, and btw. I don't really care what anyone thinks about it." and (in the same paragraph) "But I'd really love to see more people discussing peace rather than war."
So, you don't care what anyone else thinks about it, just what you think is important. Right.
The rest of your clueless diatribe is not even worth discussing, so crawl back into your mom's basement and use some of that internet time to get at least a LITTLE education instead of trolling forums, you will benefit from it tremendously.
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