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Ask the Air Force Cyber Command General About War in Cyberspace
Posted by
Roblimo
on Fri Feb 29, 2008 01:44 PM
from the play-the-ultimate-MMORPG dept.
from the play-the-ultimate-MMORPG dept.
We ran an article about the new Air Force Cyber Command and its recruiting efforts on February 13, 2008. Now Major General William Lord, who is in charge of this effort, has agreed to answer Slashdot users' questions. If you're thinking about joining up -- or just curious -- this is a golden opportunity to learn how our military is changing its command structure and recruiting efforts to deal with "cyberspace as a warfighting domain." Usual Slashdot interview rules apply.
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Air Force Seeking Geeks For 'Cyber Command' 524 comments
An anonymous reader writes "Wired reports that the two-star general in charge of the US Air Force's new Cyber Command is looking for hacker-types to beef up its cadre of cyber warriors — no heavy lifting required. 'We have to change the way we think about warriors of the future,' General William Lord says. 'So if they can't run three miles with a pack on their backs but they can shut down SCADA system, we need to have a culture where they fit in.' The Cyber Command is the Air Force's first new Major Command since the early 1990s. Its purpose is to be able to win an electronic war with China and other potential adversaries."
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Air Force Cyber Command General Answers Slashdot Questions 543 comments
Here are the answers to your questions for Major General William T. Lord, who runs the just-getting-off-the ground Air Force Cyber Command. Before you ask: yes, his answers were checked by both PR and security people. Also, please note that this interview is a "first," in that Generals don't typically take questions from random people on forums like Slashdot, and that it is being watched all the way up the chain of command into the Pentagon. Many big-wigs will read what you post here -- and a lot of them are interested in what you say and may even use your suggestions to help set future recruiting and operational policies. A special "thank you" goes to Maj. Gen. Lord for participating in this experiment, along with kudos to the (necessarily anonymous) people who helped us arrange this interview.
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IT: US Cyber Command Reveals Plans To Hit Back At Cyber Threats 95 comments
CNet News.com is reporting that the Air Force's Cyber Command has just as much interest in offense as defense. "Air Force Cyber Command (AFCYBER), a US military unit set up in September 2007 to fight in cyberspace, is due to become fully operational in the autumn under the aegis of the US Eighth Air Force. Lieutenant general Robert J. Elder Jr., who commands the Eighth Air Force's Barksdale base, told ZDNet.co.uk at the Cyber Warfare Conference 2008 that Air Force is interested in developing its capabilities to attack enemy forces as well as defend critical national infrastructure. "
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Technology: Air Force Suspends Cyber Command Program 166 comments
AFCyber writes "The Air Force on Monday suspended all efforts related to development of a program to become the dominant service in cyberspace, according to knowledgeable sources. Top Air Force officials put a halt to all activities related to the establishment of the Cyber Command, a provisional unit that is currently part of the 8th Air Force at Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana, sources told Nextgov.
An internal Air Force e-mail obtained by Nextgov said, 'Transfers of manpower and resources, including activation and re-assignment of units, shall be halted.' Establishment of the Cyber Command will be delayed until new senior Air Force leaders, including Chief of Staff Norton Schwartz, sworn in today, have time to make a final decision on the scope and mission of the command."
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Skynet? (Score:2, Funny)
Already in, how can I help? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Already in, how can I help? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Remote work? (Score:2, Interesting)
As A Military Commander... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:As A Military Commander... (Score:4, Insightful)
You probably got moddded down because your choice of language suggests a certain naivete.
The internet is nothing until someone uses it. Just like a roadside bomb, a watering can, a butterknife. Since it's pointless to talk about it unless you talk about how it's used, then what you're really talking about are the people that use it, and how they use it. To say that it's inherently non-violent is to say that the people who use it are. Which is demonstrably false. And before someone mentions the non-violence of ones and zeros, please remember that much of warfare (including heading it off before someone tries to start one) is communications, awareness, readiness, and the health of your government, industry and other large systems... all of which now depend on the network. War is about controlling, or denying other people the use of the things that allow them to have power or influence over others - and a mammoth, globe-spanning communications system is now forever going to be a central venue for things very much related to violence. It already is.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
War on blogs? (Score:4, Interesting)
Unplugging (Score:4, Interesting)
Already done (Score:4, Informative)
The answer is the same for anything else that is connected to the internet: that the benefits -- real or perceived -- of being connected to the internet on the unclassified side, with proper security controls, etc., outweighs the risks.
Parent
Re:Already done (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
How do we prevent "mission creep" (Score:5, Insightful)
What are the limits on this jurisdiction? Who enforces these limits, and how is the public informed of that status? How are efforts to extend being safeguarded from creating mission creep that threatens all civil discourse in the United States and abroad form targeting, suppression, propaganda and extra-legal surbeillance?
Cyberwarfare Doctrine (Score:4, Interesting)
National Labs? (Score:3, Interesting)
I thought those were the popular destinations for educated people who want to serve their country, they're already technically oriented, and they already have a lot of really smart people, so it would have seemed to me a good fit. When I'm looking at my employment possibilities, I need a way to differentiate you.
Attacks on the US and its Allies by China (Score:5, Interesting)
Difference In Culture (Score:5, Interesting)
How do you propose to reconcile those conflicts and establish your organization with any semblance of 'geek cred' to get the real talent you sound interested in attracting? What sorts of 'carrots' will you wave to attract people?
Re:Major-General Stanley (Score:5, Funny)
I am the very model of a modern cyber-General,
I've information on viruses, digital, and veneral,
I know the pings of the LAN, and I know the games historical
From Marathon to Pikachu, in order categorical;
I'm very well acquainted, too, with matters quite impractical,
I endlessly retell old jokes, both the tired and scatological,
About conspiracy theories I'm teeming with a lot o' news
My many fanciful facts pin it squarely on the Jews.
Though I've never touched a woman i've watched a lot of porn;
Gigabytes and gigabytes, a greater expert was surely never born:
I've information on viruses, digital, and veneral,
I am the very model of a modern cyber-General.
Parent
relaxing rules (Score:5, Interesting)
Older recruits? (Score:5, Interesting)
In a traditional branch of the army/navy/airforce that is probably as it should be.
But in this area people have to be trained for years, still not know as much as the older hands in the private industry, and before they really know enough their enlistment would be over. Also, it would be unacceptable for an older IT person to join but take a pay cut to a Private's level or perhaps even a Lieutenant's -- so I imagine this branch would have to be somewhat different.
Is the military going to do to reach out toward the older folks who have extensive experience and knowledge outside the military?
A question about requirements (Score:5, Interesting)
Which acts of war should be illegal in cyberspace? (Score:5, Interesting)
In conventional warfare, certain actions such as hiding among civilian populations are forbidden. These actions are considered war crimes because of the collateral damage they are likely to cause. What actions in cyberspace do you think should be outlawed? How about intentionally bringing down hospital IT systems, or destroying undersea cables without regard to the effects on civilian populations?
USAF Mining Data Useage Patterns to Find Thoughtcr (Score:3, Insightful)
Physical Fitness (Score:5, Interesting)
- Space Rogue
Re:Physical Fitness (Score:4, Informative)
For soldiers 22-26 it's 40 push ups (in 2 minutes), 50 sit ups (in 2 minutes) and 16:36 time for the 2 mile run. Those values only get easier for older soldiers. If you think "most slashdotters" wouldn't make it in the door, I think you're sadly mistaken. Those are particularly easy values for anyone remotely fit to attain, and not particularly difficult for many people who aren't that fit. Obviously there is a contingent of folks who are sadly out of shape, for whatever reason, that it would be difficult for but it's far from "most" even in the slashdot community, I'd guess.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You have fitness issues that need correcting. Period.
When the USA finally gets "IT"... (Score:2, Interesting)
Basic Training (Score:2)
Preferred Skillset? (Score:2, Interesting)
Are you prepared for this? (Score:5, Interesting)
If so, can you tell me why you chose ASP to run your website? Won't you have enough trouble recruiting as is without alienating some open-source loving folks right off the bat?
So far everything I've seen about this organization is riddled with basic mistakes. I wish you the best of luck but I'm just not convinced you have any idea what you're getting yourself into with this initiative.
What tech do you have that came from the stargate? (Score:2)
Name Change (Score:4, Informative)
Perhaps the reason you are having difficulty in attracting top talent is partly due to the name of your unit. Cyber Command? Sorry, but that just sounds soooo 1980's. How about Electronic Defense Command or something, anything without the word 'cyber' in it. Seriously, have there been any thoughts about a name change?
- Space Rogue
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
This from a guy named "Space Rogue."
(j/k)It is good war is so terrible... (Score:5, Insightful)
The direct damage from such warfare would be primarily economic or data security related (rather than a cost in human lives) how do you feel we can prevent it from becoming a monthly, yearly, or daily occurance?
Criminal vs Warlike Actions (Score:5, Interesting)
General Lord,
Does the AFCC have a mandate to pursue criminals that use information infrastructure to commit crimes, or is your group intended to defend against warlike attacks only?
If the latter is true, how would you distinguish between criminal activity and warlike activity in cyberspace?
Will the USAF Cyber Command be full of TPS reports (Score:4, Interesting)
Will you be forced on to the standard USAF window base image with limited admin accounts like how the navy and marine systems that are a Big mess are setup?
Will you use mac and linux like how the army does?
Legal Hacking... (Score:5, Funny)
Due to the nature of hacking and what many people do to acquire such skills, they may not want to 'join up' and all that.
But if you post a list of IP's that are okay to bring down, and networks you want information stolen from, with the understanding that the US will not condemn any attacks, and I'm sure more than enough people would do it for free.
Is there anything like this already in place? Cause I got nothing better to do this weekend. Or most any weekend.
I really hope this gets asked (Score:3, Interesting)
I think Internet Privateers, a sibling-comment suggests, would be perfectly legitimate - and as effective, if not more effective, than an organized USAF "cyber attack" on, e.g, the PRC. I don't doubt the need for a "cyber command" to protect American information infrastr
Could a Cyber Attack Trigger a Real War? (Score:5, Interesting)
General Lord,
I'm curious to know if you have have any criteria that would enable you do decide when a cyber attack is an act of war. Would it be possible for some kind of action inside a network to lead to a shooting war without some kind of overt physical threat occurring first?
CyberCommand Location (Score:5, Interesting)
Can you explain some about the situation developing between Barksdale AFB and Offutt AFB as they try to fight over the eventual final location for CyberCommand? My thoughts are that finding and recruiting talent, and laying the foundation for such a large wired infrastructure in the Omaha, Nebraska area may be easier to accomplish than in and around Shreveport, LA. What types of things is the DoD looking for when they choose the final location for this new Command?
International Development and AFCC's Tool Set (Score:5, Interesting)
General Lord,
Some of the "hacker" types that I understand the AFCC is looking for probably will prefer to work with Linux and Linux applications.
Due to the international nature of software like Linux that has been developed through the "free" paradigm, would this be allowed? These tools will have been produced by nationals from many different countries, perhaps even those that the United States could find itself fighting a cyber war against.
Accept, Retain, Solicit good people? (Score:5, Interesting)
Some of the most talented people in computer security tend to have the sort of records that prevent them from getting clearance. Maybe nothing heavily criminal, but enough of a colored background that traditional security clearance mechanisms would throw them out of the room before they get started. Often the same types of minds that are really good at computer security are also the rebel types, who'll have some history. Will you work to get these people in, or are we looking at a bunch of off-the-shelf programmers/admins who've taken a few simple courses in computer security?
Also, how do you plan to attract/retain them? Again, rebel types are some of the best hackers, and they're not likely to go in without incentives. Not due to any lack of patriotism per se, but an unexplored understanding of it. More importantly, they're likely to be anti-establishment types who aren't comfortable in the strict traditional chain of command. Finally, usually the outside industry pays quite well for the good ones. Are you prepared to financially compete for the best?
Finally, will there be any connections back to the research/academic community? You may find academics more happy to help than usual, as cyber warfare can often be nonviolent. Also, will the existing (and immense) capability within the NSA be properly leveraged?
I'm glad to see our DoD taking our nation's networked security seriously. Right now it's just a bad, bad joke.
Best of Luck!
-Lally Singh
My question is: (Score:3, Insightful)
Why was the Air Force tasked with this? (Score:5, Interesting)
What if this alternative existed for Mitnick? (Score:4, Interesting)
One of the storied stereotypes of the hacker domain is that of the nabbed "black hat" being impressed Into a "white hat" role. (Think Leonardo DiCaprio's role in "Catch Me If You Can".) However, the US armed forces no longer offer service as an alternative to prison (last I checked anyway), even though it offers a hacker in such a position the best deal he or she may ever get.
Would you seriously consider trying to exploit the talents of convicted hackers if you thought those talents could be a viable asset?
Question about Existing Contractors (Score:5, Interesting)
flexibility (Score:4, Insightful)
I served proudly as an active duty member of the United States Air Force for 4 years and then in the Reserves for another 4 years. Although the Air Force is generally regarded as the most "modern" of the U.S. military branches, I still found that the overall structure was too rigid to take me where I wanted to go, so I followed my inner geek and moved fully into the civilian sector.
You said, 'We have to change the way we think about warriors of the future.' At first, I guessed that you would hire these individuals into government contractor positions, but the Wired article implies otherwise. Many of the brightest security experts, by nature, are highly independent and have a noted distaste for many of the standards that being in the Air Force require, such as basic training, dress and appearance, and physical fitness. How far will the Cyber Command bend the traditional standards in order to persuade the best and brightest in the security field to sign up into a military career?
Supermilworms (Score:3, Interesting)
Superworms [wormblog.com] such as Storm [wired.com] represent perhaps the greatest threat to the internet becasue their stealthy natures allows the organization of millions of computers into a covert zombie botnet before their true exploit is finally launched. Will Cyber Command launch offensive operations to hunt down and destroy superworms already imbedded in cyberspace civilian computers, or create supermilworms (new word for CC use if you wish, with zero Google hits) that covertly draft millions of civilian cyberspace computers as secret War Reserve resources available for future callup and deployment in a future cyberspace battle?
National Guard Role? (Score:3, Interesting)
In major campaigns, the National Guard (and Air National Guard) play a significant role and are often the front line service. How do you see the individual state Guard units participating? In addition, what Civilian roles will be both a part of the Guard and contracted to the Guard?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)