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Ask Apache Software Chairman Greg Stein

Posted by Roblimo on Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:20 AM
from the many-feathers-in-his-cap dept.
Software Apache
Here's a man who obviously has his finger on the pulse of open source software development. I mean, who hasn't heard of Apache? His work history is interesting, too: He's moved from Microsoft to CollabNet to Google. And he's not shy about speaking his mind about open source, as shown in this ZDNet blog entry. Please try to confine yourself to one question per post. (If you have more than one question, post more than once.) We'll send 10 of the highest-moderated questions to Greg tomorrow and run his answers when we get them back.
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  • untethered computing (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mfh (56) on Tuesday March 28 2006, @11:22AM (#15011157) Journal
    Greg,
    What are your thoughts on Apache's direction in regards to the new roaming AJAX desktops [slashdot.org] we keep hearing about -- what are some of the limitations you foresee in the overall untethered computing experience?

    Kind Regards,
    Scotty

  • Why... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 28 2006, @11:24AM (#15011171)
    Why do you find it neccesary to help companies like CentOS hack rural town websites?

  • Why Java? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 28 2006, @11:27AM (#15011191)
    Why does everything the Apache foundation release these days have to be Java based?

    I use http but thats about it. I have looked at the other Apache software but always been offputting to have to set up Java with all the classpaths etc.

    Whats wrong with C or C++? Its portable and easy to install and run.

    This isnt a troll, although it might look like one....

    • Re:Why Java? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by booch (4157) <slashdot2009.craigbuchek@com> on Tuesday March 28 2006, @12:37PM (#15011719) Homepage
      Another question we might ask is -- why has the Apache Foundation diversified so much? There are a lot of Apache projects out there now, many of which a lot of us are completely unfamiliar with. And some don't even have anything to do with the web. (SpamAssassin comes to mind. It's a great package, but seems to have no relation to Apache HTTPD.) What are the pros and cons of this diversity? Might it cause a lack of focus on the core HTTPD?

      • Re:Why Java? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by p2sam (139950)
        I don't speak for The Apache Software Foundation, but they are not simply managing the Apache HTTPD anymore. They have become more like a sourceforge like thing, except they are very selective about which projects to take on, and whose projects out of incubation are of exception quality.
    • My thumbs up to that statement. Add in why installation of Tomcat/JK is so unnecessarily complicated over core apache, and plays so poorly with other modules.

      -M
      • got any proof for that wild generalisation ?

          • Java configuration and classpaths really aren't all that complicated once you get the hang of them.

            On the flipside, I've never found native stuff to be all that easy. Sure if you are running Linux x86 then most stuff just compiles out of the box, but try compiling oss stuff on windows, or perhaps trying to get an oss library to run on an embedded platform - it can be a royal pain in the ass. My experience suggests that third party libraries are a pain in C unless you work with them at source level - try get

  • Apache 1.x vs. 2.x (Score:5, Informative)

    by filesiteguy (695431) <kai@perfectreign.com> on Tuesday March 28 2006, @11:28AM (#15011200) Homepage
    I'd like to know what the continuing direction is going to be for support on 1.x - which is being used by the majority of webservers I see - and 2.x - which is what is being distributed in most recent operating system packages, such as Linux. Are you planning on supporting 1.x forever or ending support at some point and forging on with 2.x?
  • Greg,

    Do you believe that open source projects should always remain in the public domain- ie. that no open source projects should turn commercial?
    • Do you believe that open source projects should always remain in the public domain- ie. that no open source projects should turn commercial?

      Most open source projects are NOT public domain since they retain the copyright of the authors.

  • Business Sense? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by RingDev (879105) on Tuesday March 28 2006, @11:30AM (#15011215) Homepage Journal
    From TFB: "I predict that in 5-10 years most of the software you use will be free."

    Does he also predict that in 5-10 years most software development position will be gone or significantly value reduced the also?

    The obvious answer is no, the market will find a balance between free and non-free business models to support further development. Some one has to pay the developers to put bread on the table. Someone has to pay the advertisers to get the word out about the project. Someone has to pay the management to keep the project on task and schedule.

    -Rick

    • Cleaned up for actual question (Score:5, Interesting)

      by RingDev (879105) on Tuesday March 28 2006, @11:33AM (#15011235) Homepage Journal
      Given your opinion that "in 5-10 years most of the software you use will be free." How do you see the future of software development business plans? Will every software development company depend on the profits of their support department for funding?

      -Rick
    • Does he also predict that in 5-10 years most software development position will be gone or significantly value reduced the also?

      It appears he is predicting that mainstream, commercial software development will be significantly reduced with open-source alternatives taking their place.

      He seems to feel that "communities" will drive software and that professionals will most likely make their revenue from installing, supporting and configuring said software or combinations thereof.

      One issue I have with
  • Free & Open software is great on the most part, but developers need to pay bills too. If all software was free and open, who'd want to learn to make it?

    • Free & Open software is great on the most part, but developers need to pay bills too. If all software was free and open, who'd want to learn to make it?

      What is with all these uninformed business plan questions? Most major open source projects are funded by users. Developers get paid to work on them by people who want to use them and want some given feature. It is not as though open source coders are working for free all the time. Some are as a hobby, but for the most part it is just not the case. Now

  • Why no other major httpd projects? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Soko (17987) on Tuesday March 28 2006, @11:35AM (#15011249) Homepage
    The Apache license allows for non or commercial distribution of Apache or a direct derivetive (with attribution), but I don't see any other products or projcts based on the Apache codebase (I know there are some) that are nearly as popular as Apache itself. Can you answer why this is?

    Soko
    • The Apache license allows for non or commercial distribution of Apache or a direct derivetive (with attribution), but I don't see any other products or projcts based on the Apache codebase (I know there are some) that are nearly as popular as Apache itself. Can you answer why this is?

      Which license do you mean? The newest one that made OpenBSD fork httpd? Now why does that remind me of XFree86 and Xorg?

  • My question (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 28 2006, @11:35AM (#15011251)
    Can you slip a few "accidental" holes into 1.x so there's an excuse to bump the version number all the way to 1.3.37? Please?
      • what the hell are you talking about? the versions are completely arbitrary in regards to the repository. at most there is some kinda tag like R_1_3_37 (i don't really know how apache tags their shit) but there is no correlation between the release version and the repo numbering.

  • Open Source and Gaming (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Red Flayer (890720) on Tuesday March 28 2006, @11:35AM (#15011255) Journal
    Greg,
    After reading your homepage and following many of the links, it's obvious that you are a pretty solid game enthusiast -- from your work on MUDs, playing MTG in your younger years, to enjoyment of TES:Oblivion. Do you think that open-source software has a significant role to play in mass-market gaming? Do you think that opening the code of games would enhance game devlopment?
  • Apache Chief.

    In which case I'd ask him two things. First, if he has any juicy gossip about the other Superfriends. And second, if he could have other powers instead of the one he's got, would he want them, and if so, what would they be?

  • Critics (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 28 2006, @11:37AM (#15011268)
    How do you respond to critics who allege that Apache has gotten bigger and more bloated in recent releases, particularly the 2.x series?
  • will there ever be an Apache live cd distro?
    what i'd like to see is a live bootable cd for a server that the first time you boot from it with a clean storage drive, it asks for setup preferences and writes those to the hard drive or flash drive.
      on subsequent boots it reads those preferences from the hard drive and sets itself up automaticly.

  • Mullets Galore (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Greg,

    Have you ever looked in the mirror in the morning? Seriously dude, you look like a roadie for Ratt. I think I saw you behind a guitar center once drink a beer on top of a Camaro? Seriously, what gives with the hair, clothes, etc? Someone needs to open source some style and ftp it to you pronto I guess. Take care of yourself.
  • I mean, who hasn't heard of Apache?

    I suspect this guy probably hasn't [slashdot.org].

  • Howe does it feel to (Score:3, Interesting)

    by scenestar (828656) on Tuesday March 28 2006, @12:06PM (#15011481) Homepage Journal
    Corner micorsoft with a larger marketshare and a superior product.
  • So we all know that you have an affinity for Manhattans, but what's your favorite scotch? Favorite as in "stuck on a desert island with one bottle of scotch".

  • What's in a name? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Do you think it's appropriate to use/borrow the name of a people for a large visible public project/undertaking without asking their permission first? Have you ever asked a representative of the Apache people what they think about the fact that their name is used for your project?

  • Bloat and new competition. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by booch (4157) <slashdot2009.craigbuchek@com> on Tuesday March 28 2006, @12:30PM (#15011678) Homepage
    What do you think of the newer smaller competitors? Particularly LightTPD [lighttpd.net]. Would it be worthwhile for Apache to work to "slim down"? While Apache is seen by many as a slimmer alternative to more monolithic servers like IIS, it seems that it may be vulnerable to the even smaller alternatives. And this new round of competitors is nearly as featureful and extendable as Apache. What can Apache do to stay current and competitive?

  • Policy on recognition in code contributions (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Leknor (224175) on Tuesday March 28 2006, @12:36PM (#15011715)
    Apache seems to have a policy against programmers having their name in a comment for the code they contribute to. For much of the open source world, the code is a major medium that programmers express ideas like a canvas is the medium a painter expresses themselves or the pages of book is for a writer. Admittedly programming is more of an engineering skill than it is an artistic skill but well written code still takes an artistic eye. Discouraging a programmer from identifying their contributions is in effect discouraging them from taking the utmost pride in their craft. Why does Apache remove incentives for people to do their best work?
    • Discouraging a programmer from identifying their contributions is in effect discouraging them from taking the utmost pride in their craft. Why does Apache remove incentives for people to do their best work?

      Your source of pride should be the solid piece of code you've freely contributed to the community, not your name attachment to it. The latter feeling is vanity, not pride.
      • There are a lot of "shoulds" in this world. We should end hunger and poverty, should stop global warming, should brush your teeth after every meal, etc. The problem with that is "shoulds" don't always reflect reality. The reality is people do better work when they take pride in what they do and encouraging people to take pride in their work is something we all should do.

        vanity [google.com] is excessive pride. Putting your name on your work is not excessive. By your logic anyone who creates anything and takes credit f

  • Management (Score:5, Interesting)

    by StressedEd (308123) <ej.grace@imperia[ ]c.uk ['l.a' in gap]> on Tuesday March 28 2006, @12:44PM (#15011796) Homepage
    Dear Greg,

    We often read about managment problems with large software projects. The Apache web server is a large, well maintained and stable platform. This obviously didn't happen by accident but as a result of the team all knowing what they were supposed to do.

    With this in mind, what are your personal top ten management do's and dont's with regard to large software projects?

    Regards,

    -ed

  • Any relation to Ben? Can we win your money?

  • Segmented Servers (Score:4, Interesting)

    by PhYrE2k2 (806396) on Tuesday March 28 2006, @02:27PM (#15012543)
    Has any thought been put into doing what FastCGI has done, only within Apache and its modules rather than between Apache and some other program? This could reduce the core server size, allow threading and other fun where it wasn't before, and use resources more efficiently, passing proper apache structures to a module server that could pass that same structure to PHP/Perl/TK/etc and back again?

    -M

  • Why not improve Apache 2's usability? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Alpha_Traveller (685367) * on Tuesday March 28 2006, @03:03PM (#15012849) Homepage Journal
    It seems to me that there are more newbies to Linux every day. With Apache 2 being such an important Web services platform, it appears very powerful but not all that easy for a person new to Apache to set up. Why kind of efforts do you plan to undertake to improve the set-up process for Windows and Linux flavors?
  • Any relation to Ben or Franken Stein?

  • Can you briefly (like 100 words or less, without technobabble) say why the Apache project has been such a quiet success and would you please do that, if you can? And if that doesn't seem possible, could you briefly say why?

    I'm looking for a couple of things: first, you are an expert in FOSS and your opinion about whether managing communications was more significant than managing bugs, etc, would be of great personal interest. But I'm also hoping for something pithy that can be used at a college Board of D

  • Being the chairman of such an important and successful project such as apache, how much money do you sleep on at night with how many beautiful women?
  • The Apache license itself has some interesting software patent provisions, but the apache.org web site doesn't seem to have much in the way of an official position or policy statement on software patents. Can you talk about Apache's attitude (if any) toward software patents, and maybe business method patents as well? Do any current patents interfere with the Foundation's work?

    Yo,
    -Karl

    • 2.2 - wait for it (Score:4, Informative)

      by PhYrE2k2 (806396) on Tuesday March 28 2006, @02:22PM (#15012515)
      Wait for 2.2 (currently 2.1) to go stable.
      The lingering daemon functionality that was provided externally in 1.3 is back and in core 2.2.

      This will be a huge boost for large providers to serve more connections and provide good reason.

      At present, I recommend 2.x just because it's closer to 2.2 (and hence involves less configuration and setup quirks later on)- They're about equal now with the prefork.

      I'd say that people expected a huge benefit, but didn't quite get it right away. In a Web server, it just needs to work, and both worked- so why upgrade for slightly slower performance and no additional features. What people failed to realize is that changing this framework around provides long-term growth and renews the project to increase its extensibility such as module ordering in the long term.
      As that long term comes now, you'll see a lot more move to that as the gains keep showing up, now that the framework is stable.
      -M

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