Ask Alan Cox, Activist 265
Alan Cox is one of the world's most famous Linux kernel hackers. Lately he's been speaking out quite a bit on issues like copyright law, software patents, and the future of Linux, and has generally become a bit more politically active, at least in the public eye, than he was in the past. Slashdot interviewed Alan back in 1999. Lots of things have changed since then, but our interview procedure hasn't; one question per post, we send 10 of the highest-moderated ones to Alan, and post his answers verbatim as soon as he gets them back to us.
Vodak's First Question (Score:5, Interesting)
Persuading OUTSIDE the Linux World (Score:2)
European DMCA (Score:5, Interesting)
Alan.. (Score:3, Funny)
Free vs Commercial (Score:5, Interesting)
Free *IS* commercial, much of the time. (Score:2)
Beards? (Score:5, Funny)
I've been programming a computer since I was 8 years old. I'm 29 now. That's 21 years of "experience". Lately, however, I've come to the realization that I'm never going to make it "big" unless I grow a Big Ole Programmer's Beard. I'd like to think it's possible to be a wise UNIX guru without one, but I think it would be easier if I had a beard. A big one.
My question is: Since my wife won't let me grow the Big Ole Programmer's Beard, what should I do to make it "big" in the world of UNIX gurus?
Re:Beards? (Score:3, Funny)
Alternatively, you could grow a real one, but hook two pieces of wire over your ears and tell you wife that it's actually a fake one. "see? it needs some wires to stay on."
dave
Re:Beards? (Score:1)
You're obviously asking the wrong person. What would Alan Cox know about making it big as a Unix guru without a beard? It's not like he has great personal experience in the area. No, the clear expert in this area is Linus Torvalds. He appears to know not just how to become a guru without growing a beard, but also how to avoid being reduced to a pulp by a potentially disapproving wife.
Re:Beards? (Score:2)
Disclaimer: I have a beard, but it's kept well trimmed at my wife's insistence.
Re:Beards? (Score:3, Funny)
Boy, you'd think you'd be done by now.
Re:Beards? (Score:4, Funny)
I think the jey here is compromise, and at the heart of this compromise is the goatie. No it's not a full blown beard, just a mini-beard. Now if your wife is willing to let you grow a goatie you'll experience the following benefits.
1. Eligible for guru understudy status
2. Can participate in emacs vs vi wars but must take the side of emacs
3. Immediate membership into system administrators club but not allowed to touch the clusters
4. Can hack kernel code as long as a 'Big Beard' is looking over your shoulder
Good Luck
Just tell her it will tickle her inner thighs. (Score:2)
If the dmca, or europes version... (Score:1, Interesting)
Linux over the nest 5 years (Score:4, Interesting)
What do you see as being the most important developmental direction that Linux will take over the next 5 years?
Big iron, embedded systems, desktops, PDAs, gaming system OS? Application suites, fixed use applications, games?
How do you expect to be listened to? (Score:5, Interesting)
Compromises and practicality (Score:5, Insightful)
Copyright Laws and the Public (Score:4, Interesting)
Open Content (Score:1, Troll)
What would you advise to get Linux wide desktop ac (Score:1)
Linux politics (Score:4, Interesting)
Your famous series of -AC kernel patches is described by most as being much more experimental than Linus's kernels. Do you feel that Linux should be an experimental OS rather than one which is designed for production use? Or do you write these patches to take Linux closer to (or beyond it's limits) in the spirit of kernel hacking?
The future of Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The future of Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
A more interesting question I think would be:
What are your views, as they pertain to *nix in the mainstream, of OS X? Does it hurt or help Linux's chance in the area, or allow Linux to perhaps concentrate on server side areas?
Re:The future of Linux wrt OS X (Score:5, Interesting)
You once mentioned that how open the source was is largely irrelevant, what matters is open standards and interfaces. Apple has opened up some their code, but considering that large parts of the most important components are closed, and their interfaces are protected by patents and IP law, should OS X be seen as a threat to open computing?
Re:The future of Linux (Score:1)
I think what Linux userspace needs is a bugtrack system built in that will log the error messege, what you were doing, and all other information, then update it's list of Bugzilla accounts as to where to sent the bug report, then all you need to do is hit "ok" to send the report.....like MS is doing now in XP.
Have you ever considered a run for politcal office (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm a supporter of direct action myself, and see a lot more utility in public debate & protest than I do in politics.
another vodak question (Score:3, Insightful)
Dependency Hell (Score:1)
What is your political goal? (Score:5, Interesting)
What is the goal you hope to obtain in regard to the DMCA dispute? How to you intend to meet those goals ?
Personally, I think that as time passes, people will become more and more technical and eventually the absurdity of the DMCA will be exposed on a more general population than just the techies that it is now. So the nest means to an end IMHO is educating the general public. Is this your intention?
-Troy
Past Interview. (Score:4, Interesting)
GPL and BSD et al (Score:2, Interesting)
Another one (Score:3, Interesting)
What are your feelings on microkernels vs. monolithic kernels? Linux attempts to be both through the use of loadable modules; is this an ideal answer to the question? How do you define what is an essential component of an operating system kernel?
Re:Another one (Score:2)
Kernel Trees (Score:5, Interesting)
With more branches of the kernel popping up all the time, are you concerned with managing a stable kernel with the latest drivers? What problems with kernel tree management do you see in the future!
PS: DCMA SUCKS!
Re:Kernel Trees (Score:1)
Re:Kernel Trees (Score:1)
Linus has "control" over the main tree and nothing gets submited for his blessing if the maintainers do not put it up for a blessing.
realy, the maintainers sheild the Trunk of the kernel and all the experimentation is handeled in the branches....good experiments are destined for the developmental cycle, bad ones...wel they get trashed
there is very little managment that occurs at the main tree level to keep everything coherent other than the basic "here are the rules for patche submitions, follow them or be ignored"
Re:Kernel Trees (Score:1)
Having allot of branches on the Linux kernel tree is a double edged sword. It can create allot more developer input, but it can also make maintaining a stable tree with all the drivers for the latest hardware a royal pain. The further a branch with a unique driver is out on the tree, the harder it is to patch into the main trunk, to make it available to the majority of the Linux users and distributions. And the more branches there are, the more entropy results. Many of the kernel hackers out there are donating their time. It takes a fair amount of time to filter the good stuff out of the branches, and incorporate it into the main trunk. As more Branch's are created, the more time it takes to manage the main trunk. These guys need a life too ya know!
As a side note:
Alan has done a great job, and has been one of the leaders in Linux kernel development. Most of his AC branch of the kernel usually makes it into the kernel. If Linus ever steps down from handling the main trunk of the Linux kernel, I suspect Alan will be the primary candidate to take his place. His work and input has helped to make LINUX what it is today, and we appreciate his efforts!
W.Kid
Security for RedHat's Kernel (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the low points of Linux administration is that very few daemons are chroot'd, and the few that are, dont have much protection because of the Linux kernel's very weak chroot protection.
Projects like OpenWall [openwall.com], GRSecurity [grsecurity.net], and SELinux [nsa.gov] (from the NSA), all attempt different solutions to this problem.
Of course, they are all incompatible with each other, but the problem remains that the Linux kernel, as shipped by RedHat is insecure when it comes to chroot protection.
Will this ever change, does RedHat care, and if so, which of these projects do you personally feel is most appropriate to lead the way in the future?
Re:Security for RedHat's Kernel (Score:2)
Of course, they are all incompatible with each other, but the problem remains that the Linux kernel, as shipped by RedHat is insecure when it comes to chroot protection.
I really do not mean to troll, but does any other mainstream OS include good and correct chroot support ?
AFAIAC, "Trusted" version of commercial Unices don't count. They are no more mainstream in regard to their respective Unix brand than SELinux is in regard to RedHat.
It always kind of bug me off when people expect from Linux what they don't get from other OS, then complain about lack of "feature" in Linux. Maybe Linux is really dragging in chroot support compared to other mainstream OS and I am clueless; please enlighten me.
What should we fear the most? (Score:5, Interesting)
The average user (Score:5, Interesting)
Alan, I use a Mac at work for general administrative work and some desktop publishing. At home, I use Windows, mostly for gaming and surfing the net. I like the idea of Linux, but am not yet convinced enough to go through any trouble to do it and then have to worry about compatability issues. What argument would you use to persuade me (and others standing on the fence)?
How to live from GPL software? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:How to live from GPL software? (Score:2)
I'd like to know how to make a living off free software, too. It's supposed to be so easy...
Microsoft .NET and Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
Do you have any other interests? (Score:5, Interesting)
Do you have any other interests, besides Linux? I know in order to get to the "guru" status you have to be pretty dedicated to one thing. But what else do you like? Or are you a 100% Linux-kernel-hacker? I swear I saw you the other day riding a Harley.
Linux and the other Nix's (Score:5, Interesting)
RedHat's stand (Score:3, Interesting)
I admire your firm convictions and the stands you take on various issues. I also admire RedHat's stand on shipping (almost) exclusively free software. (For example, I think they didn't ship KDE for awhile when it was non-free, and they replaced Netscape with Mozilla as soon as they could. AFAIK, Netscape was the only non-free component of RedHat from 7.0 or earlier onward.)
My question is, do you feel that part of RedHat's commitment to free software is based on keeping you satisfied working with the company? Does a possibility of losing their biggest-name developer help to keep them from changing their model too drastically?
Linux in the developing world (Score:3, Interesting)
Have you been involved in any "Linux for development" type issues?
I would have linked to another post I made in more depth about this but I can't get at it, it's more than 25 posts ago :-(
The ultimate question... (Score:3, Interesting)
vi or emacs?
Re:The ultimate question... (Score:1)
Why do you, old UNIX people, hate normal editors?
Re:The ultimate question... (Score:2)
Editors PLEASE don't pick this one... (Score:3, Informative)
-Kasreyn
Re:Editors PLEASE don't pick this one... (Score:2)
That was a humorous post intended to raise a smile. If I had wanted to ask a serious question I would have said something like... "Do you think the position on binary only modules should change?" or "Whats your opinion on subscription services such as Microsofts new licensing scheme and the Red Hat Network?"
Oops, sorry. Failed to catch the humor. -nt (Score:2)
Piracy. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Piracy. (Score:2)
As for me, I would take the old-fashioned approach. Have a swashbuckling crew. Of, if you prefer the more modern approach, a 50mm cannon is a handy substitute.
Coast guard (Score:2)
Or were you talking about unauthorised copying ?
Web Server embedded in Kernel? (Score:4, Interesting)
I read a while ago in an article on eweek.com that you were working on a mini web server that is part of the kernel, similar to what Novell has done with Netware 5.X. This would be great, enabling basic server management over http but not requiring a full-blown service to be running.
What is happening with this project? Was it abandoned, not technically feasible, or is progress being made?
Thanks in advance, and thanks for all the fine work you've put into the community!
Is the 'Linux' name important anymore? (Score:3, Insightful)
The strengths of Linux are strengths very difficult to explain to people who don't see why Windows and Microsoft aren't good enough for everyone.
I suppose, ultimately, my question is this: has the development of Linux out-stretched it's ability to be well-defined to the general public, and if so, how can it be successfully marketed (which seems to be the competitive endgame these days)?
Cheers.
Biggest Obstacle to Overcome? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Biggest Obstacle to Overcome? (Score:2)
I've had plenty of problems with newer releases and new hardware. I don't think it's true that this has become a non-issue.
I'd be interested in hearing what AC thinks can and can't be done to make Linux easier to install. Is lack of cooperation from hardware vendors going to keep it from ever being a hassle-free process? It may be that installing any OS is too much to expect of non-geeks. Are we better off concentrating on getting Linux preinstalled on machines in stores? Or on winning people over to free software via free apps that run on non-free OSes?
When you see "usability" in double-quotes (Score:2)
Linux and M$ (Score:2, Insightful)
make Europa (Score:2, Interesting)
Microsoft's attitude towards GNU and Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
Obviously, a lot of this is marketing bravado and chest-beating, with Microsoft alternately dismissing Linux (when talking to their clients about OS choices), or trumpeting Linux as a serious competitive threat (when talking to the lawyers/politicians/judges in the Antitrust trial).
In your opinion, what fundamental changes have taken place deep down in Microsoft's attitude towards Open Source/GNU software (including, but not limited to Linux as an OS), and how has that change shifted the playing field?
Binary Kernel Modules (Score:5, Interesting)
Linux and M$ no 2 (Score:1)
When did you decide to become an activist? (Score:5, Interesting)
Thanks,
-Kasreyn
Still MUDding? (Score:3, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Kernel drivers (Score:4, Interesting)
I consider this as a major impediment to the acceptance of linux as a mainstream desktop OS. don't you think is about time to create a standard, wrapper for binary drivers that'll allow hardware manufacturers to:
1- create closed source drivers;
2- make the closed source drivers kernel version independent
3- make it simple to "joe average" to install new hardware such as a video card and the related drivers ?
Re:Kernel drivers (Score:3, Interesting)
Examples, please? I know of a few things that are not well-supported--Kyro video cards, really cheap software modems, really cheap USB devices, and really cheap printers--but your question is pretty nebulous.
install proprietary drivers suplied by the manufacturer is also annoying, and usually requires a recompilation,
nVidia's evil binary-only X server and kernel module doesn't require this, presuming you're using a distro-supplied kernel (as all the newbies you're referring to will do.) Just install the proper nVidia RPM! Heck, SuSE 8.0 has very recent builds of those, and the installer asks you if you want to use them, should it detect an nVidia card in the system. The Lucent Winmodem drivers also have RPMs available for Redhat and some other distros.
create a standard wrapper for binary drivers that'll allow hardware manufacturers to make the closed source drivers kernel version independent
This is a very nontrivial task. A better solution has been implemented in the nVidia and Lucent modules I mentioned--there's a source wrapper distributed with a big chunk of binary code, you recompile the source wrapper against the kernel headers of the kernel version you want to use, and bingo, you've got a module that works. This approach avoids the kludge of putting together a binary interface, and puts the burden of hardware support directly on the manufacturer, where it really belongs.
make it simple to "joe average" to install new hardware such as a video card and the related drivers ?
Something you may not know is that XFree86 4.N has an abstract binary interface that allows people like nVidia and Kyro to create binary-only X servers. The problem is that, for various reasons, most of the binary-only X servers currently available also rely on binary-only kernel modules to do some work. (one part of the nVidia module actually emulates part of the Windows Registry... gack.)
Re:Kernel drivers (Score:2)
3Dfx Voodoo. they had their own (open source) driver, but when it was oficially added to the kernel the company had gone titsup.com. other example ? you gave one. soft modems. remember Mwave, that ugly piece of crap included with IBM aptivas ? it's on the kernel now, but the modem is obsolete.
presuming you're using a distro-supplied kernel (as all the newbies you're referring to will do.) Just install the proper nVidia RPM
and I do. I use distro-suplied kernel. now if you could point me where I can find a pre-compiled nvidia module for a CONECTIVA kernel... I can find conectiva rpms for lucent winmodem because AFAIK a brasilian mantains them, but I don't remember seeing nvidia rmps for conectiva. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.
there's a source wrapper distributed with a big chunk of binary code
That's EXACTLY what I meant. a source wrapper, but instead of having dozens, maybe hundreds, of diferent wrapper, a standard one, included with kernel sources (licensed under LGPL, maybe) would be better. it'll make things easier for everybody and his dog. including driver developers working for hardware companies, tech support vendors, my mom...
Something you may not know is that XFree86 4.N has an abstract binary interface that allows people like nVidia and Kyro to create binary-only X servers.
I know that. I'm not THAT new to linux. but AFAIK 3D acceleration requires a kernel component, and that's where a wrapper comes in. to make it easier to companies uncomfortable with the idea of realeasing specs to produce drivers.
Re:*sigh* (Score:2)
I'm specially interested in the technical aspect of this, not ideological. so let's see...
It's impossible to create a definitive interface because Linux is still evolving - impossible or dificult ? - Openness. If you allow all the binary crap in the kernel the vendors want many of its advantages will go away. - that's pure ideological. I agree that in a perfect world open source drivers for all kinds of hardware would be ideal, unfortunatly this is not a perfect world.
that's what distributions are for. They come with everything compiled as modules and the system loads what's needed? - and what about the hardware that's launched after the distro ? should I wait for my distro to release an upgrade ? NO. I want the driver included with the hardware, so does my unskilled mother.
I was stupid when choosing a video card and got a GeForce 2 MX - so did I. And I agree with you on this. NVidia's driver SUCKS. which makes me remind your first paragraph "but the fact is you can't debug something you don't know how works." which is not your job, or the job of kernel developers. is the job of driver manufacturer. something NVidia did poorly.
Linux on the desktop (Score:1)
Three reccomendations. (Score:1)
Of Security: Linux and Microsoft (Score:4, Interesting)
On the enterprise side, one of the greatest strengths of Linux has been its ability to be an extremely secure OS.
Now that Microsoft has shifted its focus [com.com] to security being the top priority, and given their ability to shift gears extremely quickly and effectively (ala Internet Explorer), it is quite apparent that Microsoft will be contending for top honors in the security area within the next 2-3 years.
What impact, if any, do you perceive this having on Linux development, Linux deployment, and the Linux community in general?
Music (Score:1)
Alan, what would you list as your Desert Island Discs? Those ten discs that you would want with you if there were none others to be heard...
Linux & Hardware (Score:2, Interesting)
I am new to Linux and have been working on getting my system up and properly configured. The biggest stumbling block for me has been difficulty getting hardware problems properly diagnosed and correctly configured. I have talked to several people and this has been a common gripe. In my opinion, this is a major reason that Linux has not spread more quickly in the desktop arena. In your opinion, are there things that the Open Source community should do to improve this situation? Or do you feel this is entirely the fault of Hardware manufactures for not releasing better drivers/tools for their hardware under Linux?
organizing the OSS community for activism (Score:5, Interesting)
Despite this incredible organizing for software production, support and distribution very little of this gets translated into the political realm. In his last slashdot interview [slashdot.org] Lawerence Lessig chided the community for this.
Organizers of traditional political campaigns for social justice or equitable distribution of power would drool over having a constituency as organized as that which we have. How do you think the community can translate its effective organizing in the technical arena into the political realm?
Re:organizing the OSS community for activism (Score:2)
Take SSSCA (aka CDPTA or whatever they're calling it now) which would make software which did not include strong copy protection illegal. This would essentially outlaw OS's that make source code freely available. I think there's a significant community organized around a set of values that this legislation would threaten. Don't you?
Further this community fantastically networked compared to, say, groups trying to organize opposition to toxic chemicals. The effort required to find and connect people affected by or that care about an issue like that are enormous. With the OSS community that's already done.
Did You Ever Get Picked On In HS? (Score:2, Funny)
Grand unification of everything (Score:2, Interesting)
There has been much talk of linux development fragmenting. This is a real risk, but I am seeing a different story taking place that to me is of more lasting importance:
1. Apple has moved toward *nix (albeit not linux) with OS X, essentially being Borged into a free (but somewhat customized) *nix.
2. Sun seems (to me) to be having trouble with Linux eroding its user base.
3. IBM has backed linux in a big way and is reaping big dividends.
4. Linux is being moved into virtually every kind of device imaginable, from PDAs to servers to desktops to embedded systems to routers.
5. Windows servers, while very popular, are becoming harder to rationalize in terms of price/performance and (currently) security (although MS has sworn to change this).
The desktop, in corporate america and in the home, appears to be the last reservation for MS.
Is the current state of (free) *nix really this good or is this a Pollyanna summary? Is winning the desktop battle really that important anymore? Was it ever?
Guac-foo.
RMS (Score:5, Funny)
best microprocessor ? (Score:2)
what is your favorite ?
and what do you think the future holds ?
(AMD or Intel, MIPS or ARM Sparc ???)
regards
john jones
Re:best microprocessor ? (Score:2)
It's probably his favourite as well.
What's your take on Shawn Gordon's essay? (Score:2)
Stephen Figgins seems to think that Mr. Gordon is merely a whiner [ http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/1217 ] and shouldn't be charging for source.
What's your take on using the GPL on commercial software?
Linux vs commercial UNIX Systems (Score:3, Interesting)
The end of cheap "open" hardware? (Score:5, Interesting)
It looks like us PC hardware hackers are likely to have a much harder time in the next ten to twenty years as the average (desktop) PC becomes increasingly integrated. I see a trend away from the PC of today towards an increasingly closed 'black box' where the components are no longer a set of cards which are easily replacable. This is inevitable, especially at the lower end of the PC market, since increasing integration leads to lower costs for the manufacturers. Correspondingly, custom hardware will become more expensive and be increasingly restricted to the high end...
How do you think such a trend away from "open" hardware would affect open source development, especially at the lower end of the spectrum? As the computer becomes more and more of a mysterious black box, do you think that the would-be hardware hackers of tomorrow are more likely to turn towards software and application development, and would this be mostly good or mostly bad for open source software (more applications/systems programmers, but fewer hardware-level programmers)?
-Malcolm.
What could kill Linux? (Score:4, Interesting)
What incidents would compose a paralyzing blow to the Linux "momentum". Do you believe Linux is immune for the loss or sudden mental illness of 10 key persons for example? Why? Or could, these core people, including you, deliver a killing blow by poisoned decisions, for example?
what can I do against European DMCA? (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh wait, that's not my question to AC. This is:
I haven't been able to act against the DMCA much, because I'm not an American and thus haven't got much ground to criticise the American law system (even if I'd like to). But I'm Dutch and I would love to take any opportunity to act against restricting acts within Europe, of course. I've been informed by Slashdot [slashdot.org] lately that such acts are in the making. Some guy named Alan Cox seems very exited, but the article doesn't direct me, as European citizen proposing such laws, further.
...where the heck can I go?
Agreed, this is an important issue (Score:2)
Re:what can I do against European DMCA? (Score:2)
If youre not one of the people who already reacted to my earlier call to action, I am currently trying to get enough people together to do something about the Dutch implementation of this law.
You can get my e-mail address, and my earlier post in the thread you mentioned, from my User Info.
MartWeaknesses of Unix and Linux in particular (Score:3, Interesting)
Pessimists Question (Score:2, Interesting)
what do you run? (Score:3, Interesting)
Underestimation (Score:2)
It's not widely publicized, but it IS happening, when lawmakers get hundreds (or more) of letters with a disticnt opinion on a topic. It puts lawmakers in the uncomfortable position of listening to voters as opposed to campaign contributors. Which is WHY it's not widely publicized - "If those darn voters start getting intersted, I'm going to have to do some real WORK, the bastards".
I think Alans comment on the EFF is off-base. The OSS community is a loose confederation of geeks ("Bazaar" in The Cathedral and the Bazaar). I don't speak for everyone, but I don't want to be associated with any one group, I enjoy the freedom and chaotic nature of OSS and the "community". Not to say I don't support some of what the EFF does, but I'll not join a group to give political power to a group when the power of the masses is of greater concern. If they have something worthwhile I want to support, I'll do it, otherwise I'll ignore it.
As long as I'm discussing geeks "acting up", why don't some folks go take a whack at RIAA? [saveinternetradio.org]
MOD THIS UP! (Score:2)
Re:The Linux kernel. (Score:1)
Oh... 'bout the same time that the hardware vendors come up with a perfect CPU.
Re:Alan... (Score:1)